Women in IT Security and Their Experiences (Part 3)

Unsecurity Podcast

Part three of the UNSECURITY Women in IT Security series features Victoria Fogarty—a security analyst and member of the vCISO team at FRSecure. You’ll get to meet her and hear her perspective on all sorts of things, including the information security industry, her journey, and what it’s like to do her job.

Protect Your Organization from Cybersecurity Threats

SecurityStudio help information security leaders at organizations ensure they’re protected against cybersecurity threats, stay insurable, and legally defensible with our risk assessment and risk management software. Schedule a demo to learn how we can help.

Podcast Transcription:

[00:00:22] Evan Francen: Hey, y’all. Welcome to this episode of That’s number 86 of the Unsecurity podcast. For those of you who are new to the show. I’m your host Evan Francen. And the date is june 29th 2020 were good 100 ish days into the covid pandemic here in the States. So it’s easy to lose track of the date at least for me. This is all right. Joining me this this morning is my good friend and colleague. I called you a good friend and colleague. Mr Brad Nigh. Good morning Brad.

[00:00:54] Brad Nigh: Good morning Evan. Yeah, I’m with you. My kids make fun of me because I’m like what day is it today? What the other week is it?

[00:01:02] Evan Francen: Right. And so you know my original show notes said you know my my brother from another mother but I don’t know if that offends people now. Does that offend people do you think?

[00:01:12] Brad Nigh: I don’t know it doesn’t offend me.

[00:01:14] Evan Francen: I don’t know. I don’t know. We’re in this cancel called try didn’t know what to say anymore. Um Alright. So anyway, we’re on our third week of the women in security series. Uh and I am super excited for our this guest to welcome our guests. Victoria Fogarty. Victoria works here that our security is an all around awesome person. I say that with all sincerity, join me in welcoming Victoria welcome Victoria.

[00:01:39] Victoria Fogarty: Hey thanks.

[00:01:42] Evan Francen: It’s good to see you as the person in your home office.

[00:01:46] Victoria Fogarty: I would say it’s more of my home living room slash kitchen slash office. It’s everything because we live in a one bedroom apartment. So you know, it is what it is, but this is the first time I’ve seen you in ages. You know, I don’t think I’ve seen you pre covered.

[00:02:02] Evan Francen: So I didn’t have a beard.

[00:02:05] Victoria Fogarty: Then I didn’t even see you prick of it because I don’t, I don’t remember. No beard. You always have a beard.

[00:02:14] Evan Francen: So yeah, at least since Was November of 2018. Yeah, when I got lazy and decided I wasn’t gonna shave anymore. So anyway, so every time I’ve talked with you victoria, you got a lot of energy. Uh great attitude. Uh so that’ll be fun to talk to you in a little bit. But first before we do that kind of stuff, before we jump into all the business e business things, we check in quick. So what’s up? What’s up with you guys brad? We’ll start with you how you doing what you’ve been up to?

[00:02:52] Brad Nigh: Uh I picked up a guy I hooked up with a half a hog for a really good price. So I picked that up from the processor on friday and I’m so excited and then it stormed. So I didn’t get to do anything this weekend with it. But pick up a smoke. Some broads to see this afternoon. Evening dang.

[00:03:12] Evan Francen: Well, that was sunday. What about saturday?

[00:03:17] Brad Nigh: Yeah. Uh, stuff around the house.

[00:03:20] Evan Francen: See if I guessed right. What did I say in our show notes? Get outside.

[00:03:24] Brad Nigh: Yeah. Yeah. I didn’t get to barbecue. I was planning on it, but it didn’t work out. Uh Yeah, the yard. Did some stuff.

[00:03:34] Evan Francen: Okay. That’s cool. How about you, victoria?

[00:03:38] Victoria Fogarty: Um, What did we do? We kind of, well, now that we’re in covid times, um, I don’t do a lot. You know, we do our walks to get outside, go to local coffee shop. Maybe do some reading. Trying to educate myself. Beyond security and beyond. You know, the gossip columns. Um,

[00:04:00] Evan Francen: Something beyond security.

[00:04:02] Victoria Fogarty: Sometimes there is, but my husband has to point that out to me. So, So yeah, If it wasn’t from him, I just think everything security all the time. Um And then, what else do we do? Oh, made some killer barbacoa.

[00:04:24] Evan Francen: I have to say so, yeah.

[00:04:28] Victoria Fogarty: You come back into the office again.

[00:04:33] Evan Francen: . Well, where uh, we’ll talk about that after barbacoa.

[00:04:35] Victoria Fogarty: Oh, for the barbacoa. You just want barbacoa. That’s the only reason you wanna see me. I could just drop it off.

[00:04:41] Evan Francen: The only reason it’s just, it was the one that put it over the top.

[00:04:45] Victoria Fogarty: Fair enough. Yeah. We can exchange brad can bring in his smoked pork and anything else that he’s smoking. And then I’ll trade in some barbacoa.

[00:04:55] Evan Francen: How’s that? Yeah, Yeah. Well, that’s good. So, uh, yeah, my weekend was crazy. I had uh, thursday night during the shit show. Got kidney stones. Oh yeah. So I stopped like, I got like, all right guys. Uh, Ryan, you’re the host now. Um, I gotta go. So, yeah, so there’s that. And then I decided this weekend that I don’t know why. I think it’s just I just do stupid stuff that was going to quit energy drinks.

[00:05:30] Brad Nigh: Probably. Uh, good idea.

[00:05:33] Evan Francen: Yeah. Doing that during, you know the kidney stone thing? I had some serious like, caffeine withdrawals. Like, I drink like a lot of caffeine and I stopped and that hurt.

[00:05:50] Brad Nigh: So, yeah, you should have tapered it. But

[00:05:54] Evan Francen: yeah, but I’m an all or nothing kind of guy man. It’s like, there’s no tapering. I just don’t do that.

[00:05:59] Victoria Fogarty: So, what were your symptoms coming off the caffeine? So cold turkey, so to speak. I didn’t have headaches, the shakes. But then how did you know that was in the kidney stones?

[00:06:10] Evan Francen: I didn’t, yeah, I didn’t know what the hell is going on. Everything was crazy. So saturday was like, yeah. Um, I don’t know. It was pain shakes, no energy. I was supposed to be working on the deck this weekend. Excuse me, Marlys was out of town, my wife. So yeah, yeah, I didn’t do that. And then joe and Danielle just showed up at my house on saturday and I I don’t think I was very welcoming. So I looked at him like you gotta go, I gotta go to bed And it was like 2:00 PM. Uh But they stayed, they didn’t take the hint. Um So then I went to the coffee shop and decided to get a coffee, just maybe take the edge off a little bit and uh that seemed to work and then Tony all sleeping, you know Tony. Mhm. He’s the c so at all, you will get to know Tony. Uh That’s another story. This he’s the ceo at centric here, okay? And he reached out to me on thursday friday to talk to give, he wants to collaborate on the VC sell stuff so he wants here but he just showed up in the house and I’m like what the hell is going on? Like everybody’s coming over and I’m like dying and then uh bobby and Rachel shut up too. I never get any visitors. Nobody really ever wants to come see me. And then also like everybody wants to come see me when I’m dying,

[00:07:49] Brad Nigh: Marlowe’s is out of time, we better check on and make sure you’re still alive.

[00:07:52] Evan Francen: Yeah and Marlys was like yeah, she was kind of surprised. She’s like why don’t you guys ever come over when I’m there, so she gets that kind of attitude thing and I don’t know, whatever I lived, it’s good. It’s monday, right? Yeah,

[00:08:08] Brad Nigh: yeah. It sounds like you you win the most eventful weekend.

[00:08:12] Evan Francen: Well isn’t that the case though? Like I’m just such a idiot. I was gonna say a bad word, but this isn’t the shit show so I can’t. All right. So interesting stuff. Uh let’s get to our serious topic. Uh This is the third week in the Women in Security series. It’s been a blast so far. What do you think brad? Have you enjoyed it?

[00:08:36] Brad Nigh: Yes. It’s been very enlightening thing for me.

[00:08:40] Evan Francen: I learned a lot. I keep learning feedback keeps rolling in. And so did the guests. I’m excited to hear about victoria’s perspectives. Because honestly, I don’t know if I know much of your perspective. I don’t know if we’ve had a chance to talk about this stuff. We see each other. We talk when you when the office was open. Uh So I’m really looking forward to the discussion. Thanks again, Victoria for joining us. Uh Let’s start out with. Uh Just quick or not quick. Take your time. How did you, how did you get started insecurity?

[00:09:12] Victoria Fogarty: Oh, isn’t everyone you have to kind of think about this because it’s kind of like how did I get started? Well, I was basically a

[00:09:20] Evan Francen: way to get to be our age.

[00:09:22] Victoria Fogarty: Well then I’ll have a better answer because then I’ll be so used to telling it. You remember if I can remember? That’s true. I just have to cognitive exercises so I don’t lose that. But so basically what happened is I was working, I first started I graduated university, got into the insurance industry as an adjuster. That wasn’t for me, I saw people were miserable at their jobs, I didn’t want to keep coming back to work every day miserable. So I switched industries into sales again. Not I wasn’t feeling it and so I knew I had to find something. I was doing a lot of research because no one can point you in the way that’s going to make you happy. But I knew That you can be happy and what you do. So that drove me into trying to find what that was for myself. And I did that in my late 20s. Um And so eventually through research for like a year I came across the tech industry and then I knew people in tech, but again, they’re all guys. Which was interesting now that we’re talking about this because any time I knew anyone in tech it’s a male figure and no matter at what level, you know whether that’s basic level they’re doing the call trouble shooting to the top level running the entire program for a company. So um I asked them for opinions and then they said, well of course yeah you can do it and people are really encouraging. But the one that stuck me and I was like, oh maybe I shouldn’t do this because it’s probably gonna be pretty bro culture is um he actually helps hire people into tech positions. They help um I guess they’re hedge hunter, what do you call them? So Headhunter. So and I sat down with him and I’m like you know the industry like you see people getting into positions, me having no background at all other than the basics, what do you think my chances are because I don’t want to waste my time and then you know because I’m self doubting who can do this because I don’t have the background. Um And women of course as I know Lori and other people have highlighted you want to make sure do I have all the things in place to be able to do this? Not just like a three of them and then I’ll just make it up as I go. Um So I asked him and he goes well yeah you’re a woman you’re nice to look at, so of course we’ll hire you. And I was like wait what like not oh you’ll learn, oh you’re quick, don’t worry about what you don’t know it was you’re going to look at people hire you and you’re fun to talk to.

[00:12:01] Evan Francen: That was one of the criteria I would have never been.

[00:12:05] Brad Nigh: Yeah

[00:12:08] Victoria Fogarty: so and so for a while like

[00:12:11] Evan Francen: this was kind of your first introduction to a hiring manager in this industry was that,

[00:12:16] Victoria Fogarty: well it wasn’t it was a friend of mine, it wasn’t like I was going out doing a hiring process. Um but it was a friend of mine who does higher and is the connector to getting people into tech positions. And I was just floored. But I was like, and I kind of brushed it off though, right? Because he’s a guy, he’s a friend. I’m like, I don’t take offense to it, but when I think back to him, like that was kind of a D move, you know, thing to say, So, um but I kept going and then I got into school because I thought, okay, education is my way forward because I don’t know how else I’m going to learn this stuff because I don’t know where to start. It’s like, you know, I kept asking people like how do you get started, what do you do, do I have to go back to school, do I have to get another bachelors, what do I do? And No one could tell me. And it was, it was really, really hard because you have no one influencing, you have no one to turn to. But yeah, you know all these people doing it and it’s like when you’re trying to cook something or make something and you go, hey, how do you do that cake real quick? And they go, oh, you know a little here, a little there and it’s like, okay, well okay, if I do it’s gonna taste like salt, you know, like you gotta help me out here a little bit. Um so eventually found direction through my school and I was going to go back and just get a computer science degree and just start all over. I had no other choice in my head and um luckily the school that I chose was a blessing because they go, why would you want to go back and get your bachelor’s degree since you already have one? I go well because I need to and they’re like, no you don’t, you’re like go get your masters. But in the time of your masters they have this wonderful program set up that you just take two or three extra computer science classes to really understand the basics and then you just finish rounding it off with these more master level classes to learn about information security and specifics and you’re done. I was like, oh, easy peasy. Okay. Still having no idea what I was getting myself into. But I was like information security sounds like a good niche. I’m into investigations. I’m into tech. So let’s do this. And then as I got through school, I never saw how they were piecing it together because they did it so well. But you’re like, okay, I’ll take this class, I’m taking this class on encryption, I’m taking this class on ethics and they had two routes, administrative or technical because I have no technical. It scared me. So I didn’t go that way and then when I was coming out of school then I started getting worried from there because who’s going to hire me now because I have no technical and as Lord, because I listened to the podcast from last week, Laurie said, people need to know that there’s more to it than tech and you don’t need to know how to code or hack like from a really young age to also get into this and no one was there to tell me that even my school, they just said, don’t worry, you’ll get a job. I was like, okay, wow, that doesn’t really help me right now because you know, I’m coming to the end here, so um I don’t even know how I stumbled upon it, but through some context and stuff, you know, I found you guys and you’re willing to give me a shot, but again, until I got with a far secure, I had not even a single clue even through all the education I got that you could go into this industry without hard knocks, technical knowledge or skills because even people that was interviewing with or thinking I could get an interview with and I’m looking through job things, They would have entry positions, but the interposition, they wanted 5-10 years experience, well how are you going to get that, I mean at century level, so wouldn’t that mean You know, you don’t have any experience, but yeah, so it was really, really difficult and then they all are looking for those technical skills. There is very, very, very, very small. I mean, probably less than 1% that I could find four years ago that even highlight saying, hey, technical skills are cool, but we can teach you things or we can bring you up within the company as you come along. Um, so yeah, I mean, it’s it’s difficult and without, you know, I wish I had Laurie in my ear four years ago saying, you know, hey, you can find a company that will highlight, you know, both administrative background as well as tech.

[00:16:49] Brad Nigh: It’s obviously, I’m glad you didn’t because it worked out really, really well. You think

[00:16:54] Victoria Fogarty: it worked out very well for me too,

[00:16:57] Brad Nigh: I had to be intimidated because you came in and interviewed with Megan and Lori and myself In succession and three or the four of us, three of us took you to lunch.

[00:17:09] Victoria Fogarty: Yeah,

[00:17:11] Brad Nigh: it

[00:17:13] Victoria Fogarty: was more, I just the whole time now let him in. I can, you know, discuss what was going through my head, um, through the phone conversations because of the way that they were conducted. I never felt like, why are they interviewing me? Because other places I had, I’m like, why are you interviewing me? I don’t have the skills you’re looking for and I’m not going to pretend that I do just again to the door and then follow my face because that doesn’t benefit either of us. It’s not gonna benefit you, it’s not going to benefit me. And then we both end up losing out and I’m going to, first time in my life get fired from a job, so let’s not do this. Um but yes, when I was doing the phone conversations, I never felt that way with you guys. Like, I felt like, oh, like they really understand here where I am at, but no, I can get somewhere else further down the line. So yeah, but they want to have lunch with you guys. I’m like, why am I sitting here? Why is this a joke? Like in the end, am I really going to get this? Because you know, again yourself down because you don’t have those technical skills you constantly are assuming you need because that’s I mean, honestly, growing up, I really thought if you’re doing computers, even in security, you have to start young, you have to have a computer or math background. I had neither and I even had people when I was going through school, I tell them like, I was kind of excited because it sounds really cool to like, oh, I’m going into information security and they’re like, why? And you don’t know any computers? I’m like, well, No, but I will, like everyone has to learn sometime, right? And they’re like, you’re almost 30? Like, are you sure this is like, wouldn’t you want to go into something more that you’re used to? I was like, well, no, because I’m not happy. So why would I, you know, so it’s also good to know out there that you can switch jobs or careers industries and just take those haters and put them out to the side.

[00:19:21] Evan Francen: That’s cool. A lot of good, a lot of good wisdom and a lot of good advice. Right off the bat. You were an insurance adjuster and then you’re in sales. Yeah. We decided to go back to school. Where did you go back to school? Is that the u the University of Minnesota

[00:19:36] Victoria Fogarty: know, because I couldn’t do it remotely. And I still, I was self supporting, you know, I paid all my bills on my own and I’d have to figure out how to pay the school on my own. And so I was like, well I can’t quit my job and my job won’t let me work remote. So how am I going to do this financially? Um, and you only get so much money, especially for masters. So, um, I ended up going to louis university and it’s a very small university in Illinois and they have phenomenal online programs. And then what’s great about their information security program. It’s like I said, they worked with me, they saw my history and they weren’t just trying to sell me a degree. They were like, oh, you can actually do this just add these few things in, we already have that built into our program anyway so it’s nothing beyond normal and um they let me do it all remote and so it’s all built around the C. I. S. S. P. As well which I didn’t know, I didn’t know what the C. I. S. S. P. Was until you know you guys are like you have to take it and like oh what is this? And then everyone’s like it’s the exam of doom. You know it’s this big thing. So little did. I know I was already prepped for it.

[00:20:49] Brad Nigh: You pass on your first try to.

[00:20:51] Victoria Fogarty: I did and I cried multiple times and everyone wondered if someone in my family passed away. I had my paper to prove that wasn’t true

[00:21:02] Evan Francen: but you you keep on the good I mean really important thing and that’s the intangibles Right? You absolutely 100% have the intangibles and I’m really happy and proud that brad and Lori and Megan saw that. Me too. Yeah because without that we can’t I mean you’re super intelligent. I mean to go from an insurance adjuster to uh salesperson, I have a degree in one thing and then go back just to work through this path. Really take some gumption. You take some some smarts. You know I’ll

[00:21:39] Brad Nigh: tell you now that you went two years now.

[00:21:42] Victoria Fogarty: Uh it’s no it seems like that though right we’ve become so close. Um no it’s it’s a year and a half. I started I started January 2019

[00:21:55] Brad Nigh: january. I couldn’t remember what

[00:21:57] Victoria Fogarty: it was a blur. Uh

[00:22:00] Brad Nigh: But I remember getting off that talks. I think I don’t remember the order but I wouldn’t

[00:22:05] Victoria Fogarty: talk to, it was Peter, I talked to Peter and then I talked to I think rene or Megan and at some point you might have been in the middle because I think Renee was the last person.

[00:22:18] Brad Nigh: Because I remember getting off the call and go in and talk to Renee saying we need to bring her in just to see in person. But unless she’s got like four heads where we need to hire, you can tell just

[00:22:29] Victoria Fogarty: but even if I had four heads I just worked behind the mic. Right? But

[00:22:34] Brad Nigh: but you can tell. Yeah, you’re clearly sharp.

[00:22:39] Victoria Fogarty: Well thank you. I appreciate that.

[00:22:43] Evan Francen: So you’ve been now what do you do? What do you do today? What’s the typical,

[00:22:48] Brad Nigh: what do you say you do here?

[00:22:50] Victoria Fogarty: What do I do? It fr secure? Um I attend meetings and I, well, so I usually assist our analysts and senior analyst because right now I’m an associate analyst. Um I assist those levels on their VC. So calls so they’re virtual see so um and then I do some background research if something needs to be done just to help with the workload because the research needs to be done. The writing needs to be done. But sometimes because we have so many clients going on and needing to be taken care of, then I can take that workload and then I learned right, because then now I’m going to be able to grow even more so because I know what it takes to get into those roles. Um and then what else do I do? I take care of excel sheets

[00:23:44] Evan Francen: lose every you keep us all up to date.

[00:23:46] Victoria Fogarty: I do. I try, I try to keep it interesting and find the good stuff beyond all the noise. So yeah, news, not noise

[00:23:57] Brad Nigh: yeah, maybe if you can correct me if I’m wrong the whole point or the hope with that associate role is getting people who have very little experience and then getting to the point where you can view or the associate can start doing mapping or these kind of policy projects and coaching projects and so have you felt that that’s

[00:24:20] Victoria Fogarty: oh, it’s, you know, you don’t, it’s kind of like going through school, you don’t see it being pieced together because everyone who’s gone before you, they see the importance because either that’s not how they learned and they wish they did. So now it’s not how I learned, it’s what I think and how people should learn following me. Um but now that, you know, I’m starting to engage more with clients, I’m like thanking my lucky stars that you guys were doing this stuff and I didn’t mind it, obviously the beginning that makes it sound like I was like, oh man. But no, it was to me. I was like, what am I doing? I can’t believe they are trusting me to put this stuff together. I really hope they look it over. Um But uh yeah, now that I’m more in client engagements, it’s very, very helpful and I’m very, very happy and pleased with the speed that I’m going, that you guys are just going, oh yeah, just go ahead. Because then I would doubt you guys probably more as leadership going, well, do you actually care about the work product that our clients get? Because you know, you want them to get the best that you can get. And right now I’m still learning myself. So

[00:25:34] Evan Francen: yeah. So what do you think you wanna? So now that you’ve kind of got your feet wet a little bit and you’ve seen different things that you know that you can do in this industry and and none of us, I mean even brad and me, I think combined haven’t seen it. All right. I mean, you’re always learning new stuff, but do you have an idea of like where you want to go? Do you want to get more into tech or do you feel like, you know the V. C. So it’s kind of a thing for you.

[00:26:02] Victoria Fogarty: I would love to get more into tech and I know I keep tapping Peters shoulders and I’m sure he’s like, stop, I get it. I know, and I keep harassing our tech guys because I’m like, hey what are you guys doing? Can you send me stuff, can you teach me things, what should I be reading? You know? And I would love to dabble and but again, it’s like there are things that I just don’t know how to get the knowledge of without either getting in trouble with the law or breaking a computer, but I don’t want to break something expensive, I’m just, I like to keep things nice and neat sometimes, but um so how do you know, like how do you become that technical savvy without stepping outside the bounds and getting in too much trouble because in school you probably are in a more controlled environment, you know, they have the production in the testing environment, but I just don’t have those tools right now, so it’s like eventually I would love to do more tech stuff um and learn how to at least have that knowledge. So when people talk about it, I know what it’s true, I know what is not feasible. Um and I can’t really be b est too much. Um right now, I’m sure some people could say some stuff, I’d be like, yeah, let me go look that up real quick, you know, instead of being able to be real and constant with that conversation in real time, so and now I’m gonna go explore tip. So yeah, because I got my card hacked and I was like, okay, we need to get to know this more and what is happening because why is this, why are people allowing this to happen? You know, because you’re learning like, oh, people really don’t have my back when it comes to cardholder data. You think they do and you like to believe, you know, as you’ve always preached since the day one that I’ve met you, people need to take care of people and now that I learned firsthand, I was not taken care of and why is that? And how do we get people to start doing that? Especially with people’s finances, the more and more we become more electronics, especially now with Covid people are more and more wanting electronic payments of paper dollars and points.

[00:28:21] Evan Francen: Yeah. Yeah. Well I think, you know, and just from my knowing you for not really, I mean I haven’t gotten to know you well because I think you just, you know,

[00:28:31] Victoria Fogarty: I float and I just, I hermit it’s okay.

[00:28:35] Evan Francen: I mean if I’m not, if somebody’s not forcing me to come out of my show, I’m just sitting here. You know, I got other stuff I’d rather do than do meetings,

[00:28:45] Victoria Fogarty: you know the same here. I sent my cubicle usually by the kitchen and most people are like, oh, I didn’t know you were, there was like, yeah, just hanging out, do anything,

[00:28:54] Evan Francen: Who is that personal, why

[00:28:57] Victoria Fogarty: are they just sitting there with their hat on in the dark.

[00:29:00] Evan Francen: Yeah, spreadsheets all but the, uh, you know, based on what I know, you know, basically what I’ve heard, I think you have a tremendous future in this industry. I mean you’re just getting started.

[00:29:15] Victoria Fogarty: Yeah, very much so. And I have to look at the beginning, especially because you’re so used to the rat race, especially in other industries that you have to go pump the brakes because if you’re going to learn this and you learn it right and you need to carry that forward. You don’t want to learn it quick. Just like in school where okay, I’m just going to remember this stuff real quick for the exam then forget about it in this industry, especially in information security, you learn very quickly. You can’t just read and forget just for a moment of time that you need that information, you’re going to need to carry this through because other people are going to rely on you to know that information, you know? Um, yeah, no, I’m very happy with the speed and I definitely think I’ll learn more and more as I continue with you guys, especially

[00:30:04] Evan Francen: I’m excited to see where you’re at in 10, 15 years.

[00:30:08] Victoria Fogarty: Oh my God, it’s just like, we, I couldn’t even imagine myself here three years ago. So it’s like,

[00:30:14] Evan Francen: but that’s one of my favorite things in the whole world is watching people grow, you know what I mean? You saw Megan do the same thing, right? I mean, she came here and she didn’t have real security experience. She had tech experience and you know, some and uh I mean holy crap, right?

[00:30:32] Victoria Fogarty: Oh, you would think she’s been doing this for 20 years. She’s insane. And when I’m like, I would never have thought to ask that. Oh my goodness. Yeah, she’s insane.

[00:30:43] Evan Francen: It’s cool why

[00:30:45] Brad Nigh: it’s so important to hire for those intangibles,

[00:30:48] Evan Francen: I’m telling you, man, it’s never ever let me down. It’s never let us down. You know, we can teach you security. I mean it’s not it’s not rocket science, it’s a lot of stuff, but you know,

[00:31:01] Victoria Fogarty: well, you know, it’s so funny is that some people want to make it seem that way, and I still don’t understand that, because when I was going through school was like, and now that I’m here, I’m like, why did they make it seem like it was so mysterious and because we were told by people who work um for other tech companies were pretty high up there, like, oh, you sure you want to do security? It’s really hard to get into not too many people can get in there. Maybe you should start by being a help desk worker. I’m like, how can I help desk anything? I was like, you know

[00:31:32] Evan Francen: what, I

[00:31:34] Victoria Fogarty: already know how to get to, you know, main portals and stuff so

[00:31:39] Evan Francen: well, yeah, that’s one of the ways you can tell somebody who probably isn’t in this industry or doesn’t. Mhm. No, the industry is when they when they say stuff like that or they say or they immediately go to the hacker, right? Immediately go to the tech side. When, you know, truly that’s not, I mean it’s not even the most significant side. Yeah, it’s people you part of the biggest risk people doing the things that they do. If you can figure that out, that is easy.

[00:32:08] Brad Nigh: And if you if you look at it and think about it that hex it is just it is a small portion of it, right? Like even with and I don’t say that dismissively, but even within tech you still have to have all the administrative controls, you still have to have all the procedures and the documentation and all that stuff that people don’t take me up. Why do we don’t want to do?

[00:32:31] Evan Francen: Right one. And I think it’s easier. So you also took a think a more difficult path or more less common path. You and Laurie actually, and Megan for that matter, I came from the tech world, I grew up well, hacking stuff, you know, and then, you know, networking, you know, I was a loved networking, figuring out how computers communicate with each other. Um So, you know, I almost take and I think maybe you’re the same way brad tech is difficult, but I think we take it for granted because we’ve just been in it for a while, you know what I mean? It uh, it’s all logical, right? It’s all right brain stuff. You can just put your left brain to bed for a while and just do right brain stuff. You’ll understand tech a lot better and then Sprinkle on the left brain stuff with creativity. Things like how can I make this logical thing do something. It wasn’t maybe designed to do, but

[00:33:40] Brad Nigh: well, I think it gets over emphasize for the first yeah, I can’t talk for information security. Right? It’s all the hackers, all the tech side that gets talked about, you don’t hear about the other 60 or 70% of it.

[00:33:57] Evan Francen: Well, that’s the sexy part. Right? Hacking is sexy writing a policy, writing a policy seriously. Where’s the gun? You know, I mean, that’s how people think of it.

[00:34:07] Brad Nigh: Are you saying acceptable use and information classification policies aren’t exciting

[00:34:14] Evan Francen: actually. You know, once you understand how they’re, what they’re made for and how they’re used properly. They are very exciting. You know what I mean? I mean for me, because I was the same way when I first started getting into the management side of security. It, uh, you know, I was like policies seriously lame. Let’s hire somebody to do that and then, and then you realize what policies are actually used for and how they now there if you use them, right. It’s like magic. Yeah, it happened.

[00:34:47] Brad Nigh: It is funny thinking back coming up like you really didn’t have policies, we have procedures for, you know, how to do backups or how to do D. R. Or all the different jobs, you know that we had, there was not, you know, account management policy. We just did it. Yeah.

[00:35:10] Evan Francen: Yeah. Well we’ll get back, we can need to get back to the

[00:35:15] Victoria Fogarty: charger. I’m just sitting here shaking my head and like yeah policies. Fun.

[00:35:22] Evan Francen: Well when we were hacked, I mean back when I was I guess hacking, we didn’t caught hacking really, you know what I mean? There was no no real such thing as security. We did things well

[00:35:36] Victoria Fogarty: and they didn’t really think about security because it wasn’t, you know, not everyone had internet access when it first started and well I have to worry about other people getting something that they don’t already have, you know? So unfortunately we’re trying to contain all the snakes in a box now that they’re

[00:35:56] Evan Francen: out. Some of the things that I wish more people getting into tech would understand or learn is the fundamentals. Just the basics, right? Uh you know, oftentimes you get lured away by you’re running some scripts or the excitement that you get when you own a box, you know, but knowing everything that went into owning that box in terms of, you know, the network protocols, what was being used, what you saw in the packets, I mean all that stuff. Uh So if you’re going to get into tech really focus on those fundamentals, the basics, like how does the network work? How does the computer work? How does it pull something off the wire? And how does it all get processed? Get deep into the architecture because that’s what we’re dealing with, you know? Mhm. All the same. Uh huh. All right. So what advice do you have for somebody who is starting out? So you were already down a career path and then you decided, you know what, I don’t like this. I want to do something different. What advice would you have for somebody like you

[00:37:07] Victoria Fogarty: like me? Well, you can start at any time. You just have to find the right people. They’re willing to support you and give you the right direction. But also do your research, know what you want to go into if its security. I mean, I don’t totally know what the security would entail, but I knew as I was taking my classes and I looked at the program, I knew it was something that I would enjoy. So if you’re changing for anything, just make sure you have an understanding it is going to be enjoyable because you’re gonna be doing this for a little while longer most likely and you don’t want to be that person that wakes up off the pillow every day and just dread the fact that you have to leave your home or you have to integrate with people that you just find miserable because that’s what my motivating factor was. It’s sad that other people had to be in those positions. But I saw people who were older than me Because I was in my twenties and they’ve been in the career for like 2030 years and they hated coming to work, they hated what they did and every day they were miserable and just grumpy and they just couldn’t wait for the day to end or the weekend to come or holiday to start or to take time off. Like that’s a long time. Two, You know, for some of my age is going to be 40 years. Do you want to feel that way for 40 years? I mean that’s miserable for anyone. So just make sure you know that going into this, that you’re going to enjoy it because that’s a long time to be in something that you don’t enjoy.

[00:38:52] Evan Francen: Well it seems it’s cool. I mean that’s just another intangible the fact that you were self aware enough to notice that before. I mean the thing is with security, it’s never too late but you know Before, maybe you’re in your 50s. No, our sixties,

[00:39:07] Victoria Fogarty: I mean you can enjoy that last run right for five years or six

[00:39:10] Evan Francen: years.

[00:39:12] Victoria Fogarty: I don’t know say that you did it, There’s people that go into med school, you know at age of 40, you know, but

[00:39:22] Evan Francen: so you think there’s a shortage, so in your in your relatively short time in the industry, do you think that there’s a shortage of women in our industry?

[00:39:30] Victoria Fogarty: Yes. And I say that again, little knowledge compared to everyone else that will be interviewed and that you guys know. But just growing up, anyone I knew doing computers, um it’s all males, you know, there, I never came across a female in my schooling anytime you ask someone’s major, what do they do? Never technical, never security. It was administrative or they’re going to be a teacher or they’re going to go into medical. And I know medical can also have their little pockets of what women typically go into versus what is a quote unquote male dominated position. But so for tech, yeah, there’s and then even during our client and um interviews and whatnot, I mean, most of time it’s males on the phone, it’s males in the room and if there is a female, their hr their finance, they are maybe a compliance officer because, you know, females do better at trying to implement the rules. Um, but yeah, the guys who are the CSOS, the tech guys who run the networks and anything of that nature to do with the conversation. It’s male and I think it has to do with like you said with your daughters and stuff, you never really pushed the tech stuff on your daughter’s as much as you did your sons. They were exposed to it. But it was kind of, you know, it wasn’t a thing. Um, and I grew up in a very creative family. Um, or my grandma was a nurse. My mom does interior design, construction management. Um, so I had no one to even, you know, really push that. And even in school, I mean up until, I don’t know how many years ago that they started these stem programs and really trying to emphasize on the females, um, of those schools. But I didn’t have that growing up. And if we had a computer class, we had to sit there and like find things on the internet and do little program like we never programmed, we never coded, We never learned how to computer work. And you know, guys my age, they were doing it on their own on the side playing video games and girls were doing other things and the emphasis of the classes that were supposed to take, like girls would go off and do family learning on how to raise a family and how to have babies. And I’m just like, what are you doing? So I took our class like, you know, so some people are driven towards certain things and that’s fine. But just getting those females, the knowledge like you can do this, you know, you don’t have to be cyclone into only certain areas and I think we’re getting better at that. But I think more could be done. You know, not just going, yeah, when someone asks you, can I go into this industry? Yeah, you’re good to look at, you have no problems. You know, I mean things of that nature that needs to change.

[00:42:46] Evan Francen: Yeah. Give him late to that because nobody’s ever said that to me.

[00:42:50] Victoria Fogarty: All right, well no, they wouldn’t. Right, because you’re a guy. So they’re going to emphasize on your intellectual talents.

[00:42:57] Evan Francen: My beard,

[00:42:58] Victoria Fogarty: your beard. I mean that alone, I mean I’m sure it has its own following.

[00:43:03] Evan Francen: It’s under here.

[00:43:07] Victoria Fogarty: It’s under there. Yeah. So you know what I mean? It’s like changing also that mindset of, you know, women can do this and I know some women also have to take into account like can I do family and crew at the same time? And if you think of certain tech roles sometimes it can be very, very daunting with the time requirements. So maybe that also stems people away. But it’s mm you know, there’s other areas of tech that you can go into that nobody talks about that can actually also be family friendly. You know, it’s Yeah, there’s just, I mean it’s layered, right? It’s not just one thing on why it is a bunch of little things that add up to the reason why.

[00:43:48] Evan Francen: Yeah. Well Lori I mean 35 years in the industry and she raised four kids.

[00:43:53] Victoria Fogarty: Exactly, yeah, but people don’t talk about that, right, Because how many women are in those positions that can say I did it and you can do it too. I mean, do you need a support system of some sort, but it can be done. Um, and just making people aware of that?

[00:44:13] Evan Francen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think that’s that’s exactly right. It can be done. There is so much to do in this industry and there’s so many different skills that are required in this industry. There is literally space for everybody. Yeah. Like everybody and you can do it. You absolutely can do it. I mean, holy crap, If people really knew how much of a mess up I am holy crap, right? I mean,

[00:44:42] Victoria Fogarty: so, well, don’t give too much away, you

[00:44:45] Evan Francen: know, right? Yeah, nobody’s going to follow me anymore because they find out who the real me is.

[00:44:50] Victoria Fogarty: It’s okay. You got the beard though. They’ll follow that.

[00:44:53] Evan Francen: Well, okay, well, that’s one of the things I think that makes, uh, that’s good in our culture to is the transparency. I mean, you guys do know the Real me. There’s nothing nothing to hide. And uh, and I think that’s one of the things that really helps, you know, when you mentor other people. Uh, I mean, you’re sharing the real you, right? So somebody listening, hopefully, you know is inspired by what you said and says, well, victoria can do it. I can do it too

[00:45:24] Victoria Fogarty: well. And just also understanding that, like you said earlier, if people are saying certain things that sound intimidating to be able to get into the industry or move in different realms of the industry or move ahead in the industry, like knowing, hey, I could be a manager, hey, I could be a C. So hey, I could do my own consulting those intimidating tactics. You gotta, I mean taste a lot, you have to be pretty strong or you need the right people around you saying the other going, don’t listen to that because it’s very easy to get wrapped up into that intimidation conversation of, well that’s, that’s a lot. You don’t know, can you handle it? You know, that’s really hard to get into. You don’t have this, you don’t have that. That can be overwhelming, especially with women, you know, because then they think, well, am I the right person for this? You, I think I’m sure guys do it too, but I don’t know, but I know a lot of guys that I go, can you do that sure. It can’t be that hard, you know? And then they try it out where women go, can I do that? Do I have the skills like they question it a whole different way before trying to do something because they want to make sure that they’re not going to let other people down and that they’re going to be the best that they can be and they’re going to fulfill the role in which is being asked. Whereas like I think you know people like hey I got 50 why not try it out?

[00:46:52] Evan Francen: Well that’s not but that’s one of the cool things and I think you keyed in on the reason why I’m very passionate about more women in our industry is because of the different perspectives, the different approaches, right? If we have this all figured out in one approach, then great. We don’t need the diversity of other perspectives. You know, diversity. The word itself has kind of been I think stolen for what it really is and it’s it’s bunkie, it’s bunches of different ways of looking at things of doing things from different angles, right? Uh So it’s not just women, you know, we do have minority issues in our industry and it’s not because they’re minority, it’s because of the perspective, you know what I mean? People are people right? I mean so but I love the fact that you brought that you gave a really good analogy to how women approach or you know, in your you know how women approach things, not men approach things.

[00:47:55] Brad Nigh: I mean there’s been times, you know, victoria is helping me on a couple of the D. C. Says that I keep and she’ll ask questions and for clarification and I’m like where how like how did you get to that? Like it’s a great question I never would have like thought of that right and same thing with like Glory or Megan, but it’s so it makes everyone better when you get people looking at things from those different angles and yeah, it’s great that you can feel like you can ask those questions

[00:48:30] Evan Francen: and I think a lot of times the people that get intimidated probably feel really teeny inside, you know, it’s one of their defense mechanisms, right? If you felt comfortable with who you are, feel comfortable with with the position that you’re in and whatever and the things, you know, and the things you don’t know, then you’d be more welcoming for other people,

[00:48:48] Victoria Fogarty: right? Absolutely, absolutely.

[00:48:51] Evan Francen: I felt like you were going to take my job or I felt like you might be better at my better at my job rather than me working to be better me, I’m going to put you down, I’m gonna intimidate you.

[00:49:02] Brad Nigh: I don’t get that isn’t the whole point of like needing to get somebody ready to move up and continue

[00:49:11] Victoria Fogarty: growing. We’ll see there’s a difference between leadership and management, you know, and some people have their own agenda when they get in their mind to a certain point, but they don’t want someone to overtake them, you know, because they work so hard to get there and they’re insecure about someone may be doing better than they are, but it’s like of course there is somebody that’s doing better than you are because there are people that are always going to be smarter than you. But why not encourage that. You know, like my husband has a quote. He goes only the weakest have to show acts of strength. Mm And so he tells me that when I have like a moment of going, what wTF was that about? You know like why did that person have to act that way or why did they have to be in that manner or say those things? And then he’ll just have wise clothes like that. Like okay, let’s just move

[00:50:09] Brad Nigh: on Australian accent to

[00:50:12] Victoria Fogarty: Yeah, that helps, doesn’t it? Yeah.

[00:50:16] Evan Francen: Yes. And I don’t have never met your husband.

[00:50:18] Victoria Fogarty: You haven’t? No. Oh, that’s right. You weren’t at the picnic. Well he’s sleeping right now so you can’t talk to him.

[00:50:28] Evan Francen: Next podcast will go wake him up.

[00:50:30] Victoria Fogarty: Oh, he would love to chat. He’s a chat.

[00:50:33] Evan Francen: That’s cool. Yeah. Well thank you victoria. We we need to move on. But a couple of things I feel like I know you more, which is awesome because I love to get to know the people I work with and work for and you know, all that stuff. So that’s really cool. And two I think you shared some really, really cool perspectives. This is going to be uh I don’t normally listen to our podcast because I hate hearing my voice. But maybe if I send this to an editor that can edit out my voice and then I can just listen to some of the advice you gave because it was sage, some good wisdom. Uh thank you. Uh Right, and I’m sure listeners got some good things, you know, I’m really hoping that it’s encouraging for somebody who was in a similar situation who can relate because we honestly we need more people in our industry period and we need more women in our industry.

[00:51:26] Victoria Fogarty: Absolutely. Well and it’s also, you know, the last thing to wrap this up is just having making people know that there are ways to access these positions in these roles in the industry, not thinking that, oh, there’s a big wall up and I can’t get in. Yeah,

[00:51:42] Evan Francen: absolutely. All right time for newsy things again, my God, there’s no shortage of news in everywhere. It’s everywhere. We could use an entire day to cover it all. But we’re not because we have day jobs too, I think. Uh so a couple of like three caught my one is a story from silicon angle. Uh the story, the title is 269GB of data stolen from us police departments published after Blueleaks Hack. Yeah, I saw

[00:52:14] Victoria Fogarty: that one.

[00:52:16] Evan Francen: Yeah. Thanks. I have so many things I want to say and I have so many things that I holding myself back from saying

[00:52:25] Victoria Fogarty: is anything appropriate that you could say

[00:52:27] Brad Nigh: that’s probably more of the thursday night show.

[00:52:31] Evan Francen: Yeah. one I’m angry at the fact that I’ll give you an example like yesterday there was a tweet. It was a tweet from somebody who there there was a teacher and their neighbor said um Mhm. You know, I hope you’re teaching, you know, the kids kindness, you know, there was having a conversation and the teacher can’t fire back. I’m teaching them about social justice. Uh and then and then uh and then he said in his tweet that and now they don’t talk to me anymore. And then L. O. L. O L. Like it’s funny, I’m like, what the hell is funny about that? There’s nothing funny about, you know, us versus them this crap that we’re doing all the time. So the you know, I know that there’s a lot, you know, a lot of people out there that anti police, a lot of people that are pro police, but why is it always us vs. Them and all this other crap. So there’s this undercurrent of this crap going on. You have 269 GB of data, the stolen. And would you want your data stolen if somebody disagreed with you and then published.

[00:53:40] Brad Nigh: And I think the bigger concern like, well obviously, you know, you don’t want that, but that is it could potentially putting innocent people at risk, right? Like it says there’s, you know, if it’s got witness information that should be confidential. Those people are now at risk. And yeah, they didn’t do anything that they’re helping, right?

[00:54:08] Evan Francen: Blueleaks. So we got to give every cool hack a name. So call us some blueleaks. A group calling itself distributed denial of secrets are too cool. Distributed denial of secrets.

[00:54:23] Victoria Fogarty: Pretty creative. They went out of the box on that one.

[00:54:27] Evan Francen: Right? So they probably they didn’t say where they found the data, did they? I’m sure they probably founded an unsecured container. So it was like they stumbled on it. And now they’re the distributed denial of secrets. Uh, anyway, so, yeah, it’s a real sensitive data. I mean, names, addresses, email addresses, dates of birth, bank account details, images, a subset of suspects and more. All right. Well, that’s that. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t I’m not going to see much more about it. You guys have anything to add. No, it’s so quiet. Evans Evans pissed off.

[00:55:09] Brad Nigh: Evans ranting again. Just let me get it out.

[00:55:11] Evan Francen: We’ll talk when Evans mad. I just want to talk. No, you guys aren’t that kind of people. The second one is from threat, post nationwide facial recognition ban proposed by lawmakers.

[00:55:23] Victoria Fogarty: Yeah,

[00:55:25] Brad Nigh: I got a not a bad idea. We’ve seen issues with facial recognition

[00:55:30] Victoria Fogarty: and absolutely

[00:55:31] Brad Nigh: false positives are probably higher than they need to be.

[00:55:36] Evan Francen: Yeah, It would be interesting to see where this one goes. So this is, uh,

[00:55:40] Victoria Fogarty: because there’s some facial recognition, you know, depending on the tone of your skin. Maybe even what ethnicity you are or you know, I mean, it actually goes against you or it doesn’t work at all because it’s not programmed except for basically a white man’s face. You know

[00:56:03] Brad Nigh: from what I’ve read, it definitely is biased against.

[00:56:09] Victoria Fogarty: Yeah. Yeah. So why would you want that kind of technology out there? Especially for legal or well in every government purposes,

[00:56:18] Evan Francen: a bigger point to like every bit of software ever developed by anybody is biased. This software would have been developed by minorities. It might have been biased the other way. There’s always biased and software development that people don’t really recognize. That’s one thing. And the second thing is there’s huge privacy issues. Mm hmm. You know I mean go to china sometime and see and see if you have any privacy whatsoever. Look at the number of cameras they have hanging on every

[00:56:47] Victoria Fogarty: bridge. I find it very enjoyable because I know some americans that have gone to china within the past year and I have conversations with them on it and they really believe there stuff is kept secret. They’re like yeah they looked at my phone but you know, I got to keep it and like like okay your stuff isn’t private. Like let’s be real. And but they really believe that you know, no one outside of the U. S. Is going to do anything that the U. S. Doesn’t do and it’s like okay, well that’s naive. Yeah.

[00:57:21] Evan Francen: So the facial recognition and biometric technology moratorium act. Would that be F. R. B. T. M. A. You gotta come up with a better name. But anyway, Senator Ed Markey Jeff, Mark Merkley, pem Pramila jayapal and Ayanna Pressley.

[00:57:43] Victoria Fogarty: Where are they from? Do they

[00:57:46] Evan Francen: represent massachusetts Oregon in Washington. Okay. All democrats. Uh But generally I like that, you know, I hopefully get some by potter bipartisan support because I’d like to have some specific rules around the use of by of facial recognition for all kinds of purposes. Right. What are the rules for this?

[00:58:11] Brad Nigh: Yeah. Well that’s the thing, right. It’s just like, hey, let’s do it with no guidelines or guard rails or anything.

[00:58:20] Evan Francen: Yeah. And I hope they don’t try to get the like the perfect law Out of the 80s. Get a law passed and we can amend it later. Right? And refine it and make it better. But they’re they’re absolutely needs to be something here, yep. But we still don’t have a nationwide privacy law, so, or breach notification law. So, I don’t know, security is a lot of work. You guys, G. B. Hackers on security is my last one. Uh new ransomware attacks, android devices, encrypts photos and videos posing as covid 19 tracing app.

[00:58:56] Victoria Fogarty: Yeah, that’s in Canada. Right. Is that the Canada 1? Canadia.

[00:59:01] Evan Francen: Canadia, yeah, we’re in Minnesota. We protect the rest of the United States from Canada? I always tell people you’re welcome. We do that. Mhm. What do you think about this one brad your android user,

[00:59:15] Brad Nigh: I mean, yeah, I don’t know. You just got to be careful. Just

[00:59:20] Evan Francen: are

[00:59:21] Victoria Fogarty: you just so used to android having so many problems? You’re just like immune to being shocked?

[00:59:27] Brad Nigh: Well, it’s doing a simple stuff. Like put some sort of a malware. Uh Good, well respected, you know, malware agent on your phone scanned, is they? It does a good job. You know, just

[00:59:45] Victoria Fogarty: looking at what you remind yourself though. What you say is basic. It’s not always

[00:59:54] Brad Nigh: we’re

[00:59:56] Victoria Fogarty: trying to educate effort. When are we at least anyone who’s listening to this, which we are all insecurity.

[01:00:02] Evan Francen: But how about do a little research first?

[01:00:05] Brad Nigh: Right, true.

[01:00:07] Evan Francen: You know, if you did a little research into the applications that you install on your phone, like my phone, I have an iphone I have way more applications than I need. Uh But you know, at least you do some research before you install the application, even though the apple store is much more than enclosed our ecosystem. But yeah, I don’t know what would you do if you’re, this is called, What’s the name of the malware called? It’s called um tried droid.

[01:00:39] Brad Nigh: I mean, you see, I don’t know, it’s the same as any other operating system. You see, I I always got routed. You get Microsoft issues. I just don’t just go installing everything and saying like, hey, why does this Covid 19 tracing at me full access to everything on my phone. Right. Like I definitely look at apps and try thought that looks okay then look at the permissions and I’m like, wait a minute. No.

[01:01:11] Evan Francen: Right. Well, how about a moment of weakness? Right. You’re busy or you know, or maybe, you know, a family member. I mean you’ve got your photos and videos cryptid. So one of the things, you know, obviously the prevention side of things, but backing that stuff up is probably a good idea. Yeah. Right. Because there are some photos I really, really dig, you know, of my family and vacations, things like that, thankfully. You know, we’re all social media junkies now. It seems like, so, you know, I probably got most of those photos on facebook or something somewhere to, who knows. All right. You guys have anything else to add on that one.

[01:01:56] Brad Nigh: No. All right, careful.

[01:02:00] Evan Francen: Right there. You have an episode 86 is almost in the books. Just wrapping up, shout outs before we go Victoria. Thank you again for joining us.

[01:02:06] Victoria Fogarty: Thanks for having me

[01:02:08] Evan Francen: also thank you for sharing your stories, your thoughts, your advice. You’re going to enjoy next week’s guest to we’re going to go outside of fr secure for the first time in this series and talk to somebody brad. I think you know who it is because it’s your show next week. I should tell you

[01:02:24] Brad Nigh: I should tell you you just wing it.

[01:02:26] Evan Francen: Yeah, that’s what we do prospective. So beyond these four walls, uh, that’s going to also be a great show. This is a ceo of a, an information security related non profit. So this is, uh, think a little less experience than Lori, but more well known. Probably Laurie purposely isn’t, you know, she keeps herself kind of not well known. So this will be a good one next week. Either of you have any shout outs for anybody.

[01:03:00] Victoria Fogarty: I don’t,

[01:03:04] Evan Francen: no, no. All right, prayer.

[01:03:10] Brad Nigh: Gosh. You know what? I’m trying to total blank. Trying to think Everything I’ve had like three days.

[01:03:17] Victoria Fogarty: I was going to say, this is what happens when you have a three day weekend,

[01:03:20] Brad Nigh: a three day weekend. I don’t even remember last week.

[01:03:22] Evan Francen: At this point, I’m gonna give a shout out for Tony for coming over on saturday. Tony all sleeping, showed up. Uh, break me out of my funk. We went on a motorcycle ride. It got some dinner. It was, it was good. So, shout out to Tony being a good friend. Uh, All right, thank you listeners. You guys are mostly pretty cool. There’s three of you listeners that I don’t like very much, but I’m not gonna tell you which three it is. Send your questions and feedback suggestions, whatever to email at un security at proton mail dot com. We still need to talk about the whole mandy in capital One incident, response thing brad. Think about next week or not. Maybe we could do that instead of news, but, you know, we’ll see, uh that’s that’s got some implications.

[01:04:11] Brad Nigh: There’s a lot of interesting things on

[01:04:13] Evan Francen: that. Yeah. Online social media people can follow us on twitter. I’m @EvanFrancen, brad’s @BradNigh victoria. Do you do twittering?

[01:04:26] Victoria Fogarty: I don’t. I’ve kept myself off of most of the platforms

[01:04:30] Evan Francen: so you can’t follow victoria yet at I don’t go do twitter.

[01:04:35] Victoria Fogarty: Perfect. That can be. And whoever does have that handle, we’ll get some interesting message.

[01:04:40] Evan Francen: Yeah. Right. All right. And the companies we work for pretty cool to security studios, twitter’s @StudioSecurity and at FRSecure @FRSecure. That’s it. We’ll talk to you next week. Thanks.