Unsecurity Podcast

In this week’s episode of the UNSECURITY podcast, Brad and Evan are joined by Oscar Minks. Oscar is the director of technical services at FRSecure and heads both the pen testing operations, as well as the critical incident response team. The three of them discuss incident response, scams, and physical security considerations in the wake of the COVID-19 outbreak.

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Podcast Transcription:

[00:00:22] Brad Nigh: Hello listeners. This is another episode of the unsecurity podcast. My name is Brad Nigh this is episode 73 today is March 30th 2020. Joining me is my co-host Evan Francen. Good morning Evan. How are you today?

[00:00:39] Evan Francen: Yeah, I think

[00:00:41] Brad Nigh: yeah, if they post the video of this, you can see our backgrounds.

[00:00:47] Evan Francen: Uh huh. And the bags under my eyes man.

[00:00:49] Brad Nigh: Yeah, lack of sleep and everything. Uh joining us today is our special guest and our director of technical solutions and services. Oscar Minks. Morning Oscar.

[00:01:00] Oscar Minks: Hey, good morning Brad.

[00:01:03] Brad Nigh: I like Evan’s note you’re, you’re saying something in your cool southern accent.

[00:01:08] Oscar Minks: I’ll try my best all day. It’s the only one I have so hopefully it works.

[00:01:12] Evan Francen: Yes. Say the word device

[00:01:15] Oscar Minks: device.

[00:01:16] Evan Francen: Yeah.

[00:01:17] Brad Nigh: Oh man. So we’ve got lots to talk about. But as his custom, we’re gonna get started by catching up real quick. So how is everyone’s week last week? It’s this has been a little bit crazy in that. Like we haven’t, we’ve seen each other on video. But yeah, I haven’t seen anyone.

[00:01:39] Evan Francen: Yeah, it’s weird man. It’s for sure. It’s what is this day? I don’t know how many days it is now but it’s been a couple of weeks. It’s weird.

[00:01:50] Brad Nigh: Yeah. We closed the office physically closed it on the 17th at the end of the day. I love to Mid morning that day. So it’s coming up on two weeks actually. Had to go in on friday and pick up a couple of things that uh like uh yeah, I could, I need those things, the it’s gonna be awhile.

[00:02:11] Evan Francen: So you came into the office on friday,

[00:02:15] Brad Nigh: yep, I was in and out real quick. You were on a video cause I don’t wanna interrupt.

[00:02:19] Evan Francen: Okay. Yeah, so I’ve been coming into the office every day uh you know by myself on and sort of on purpose. 1 1 thing is it’s a great place, just a zone out and get my work done. But then secondly, um it’s a good physical security thing, right? If yeah, you know, I kind of check the place out, you know every morning when I come in just to make sure all the windows are still intact and doors are still locked and all that kind of stuff.

[00:02:48] Brad Nigh: It’s funny, those are the little things that that I think can I get lost and you know, the chaos of everybody working remote trying to figure that out is how do you maintain security of the building?

[00:03:03] Evan Francen: Yeah. Now Oscar how about you, how big of a change has this been for you?

[00:03:08] Oscar Minks: Um it’s actually hasn’t been a lot different for me. I’ve been working from home for roughly 10 years and um a little longer than that and we live outside of the city. So a lot of my day to day uh still the same so interacting with co workers the same way I typically would. Um the biggest change for me has just been the stress of you know the news outlets and the media and the realization of what’s going on and then more so seeing some of my coworkers, you know like having distress right now because I can tell people are getting a little um stir crazy already, maybe a little bit of cabin fever already as we go into the third week here kind of self isolating. Uh but I’ll tell you today has stayed pretty good. Try to keep it as normal as I can.

[00:03:52] Evan Francen: Okay in Kentucky. Are you are you also uh shelter in place?

[00:03:58] Oscar Minks: Yeah we are shelter in place. Um it’s kind of funny you guys were talking about like you know how long this started for me? I can remember very distinctly it was I was in Minnesota right earlier in March. I got home on Friday the 13th and that’s when it felt like everything was real. We come home and that was when our governor started putting things in place for shelter emotions. So they started asking people to social distance. Um you know we started closing on the restaurant’s a couple days later and then everything kept progressing day by day and last weekend. One of my favorite things to do is you guys may know is like hit the woods. The national Forest, The Red River Gorge. That’s kind of my weekend sanctuary. They actually shut down all of our national forests. The trails are closed in the Red River gorge this weekend. It kind of got, I felt the impact a little bit more because now it’s, you know, impact in my daily life. But yeah, it’s been a strange ride for sure.

[00:04:54] Brad Nigh: Yeah. Well I was going to say that one of the things that I think you and, and some of the other remote workers have commented on is we are all using video now. So you guys are enjoying that a little bit more. So there’s a positive out of this.

[00:05:10] Oscar Minks: Yeah, we do get to see each other’s faces a little bit more than we typically would before. We do facetime Fridays on the tech team, but now we’re getting a lot more face time, monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. So that’s, yeah.

[00:05:23] Brad Nigh: Yeah. It’s weird last week I went out sunday that like the whatever, 22nd to get some groceries and stuff and then I didn’t go out of the house other than like walks around the neighborhood until friday when I went to the office to fix stuff up. Yeah. You get a little start crazy. The kids are definitely starting to feel it a little bit. We, yeah, we ended up buying, Wait would like eight different like board games and stuff that just to give them something to do. Get them off of uh electronics has been kind of rainy and cold. So,

[00:06:06] Evan Francen: but it begins,

[00:06:08] Brad Nigh: Yeah. Yeah, I saw that. You got chickens.

[00:06:12] Evan Francen: I got chickens.

[00:06:13] Brad Nigh: Nice.

[00:06:14] Evan Francen: That happened on friday. How many? Three? Cool. Yeah. Yeah, it was sort of against it. But you know, after this weekend saturday, I didn’t uh, I was, I was in a funk, saturday morning, man, I couldn’t, I don’t know what it was. My wife kept asking me, you know, what’s going on, what’s, what’s bugging me? And I’m like, I can’t put a finger on it, you know, I just couldn’t, it felt off and it could take a couple hours to kind of break out of that. But it was nice to have these, you know, kind of chickens because they’re cute. You know, you’re kind of play with them a little bit and get your mind off of all the crap going on in the world. We were just talking before the show started how it’s really hard to get away from the news. I mean you get bombarded everywhere like everywhere you go online and go on twitter and people are tweeting stuff, you go on facebook and people are facebook and stuff you go, I mean everywhere, right? It’s uh, it would be nice just to get away from it for a while. So, you know, we went for a walk yesterday afternoon, which was really cool. I took some pictures of our of our small town or city. Mm anybody streets completely empty. It’s just so weird.

[00:07:24] Brad Nigh: Yeah we’ve been doing the last two weeks um saturday night we’ll just we order and pick up from one of the local restaurants here just to support them. Just that’s that’s a new thing for us. Um So we typically wouldn’t do. But yeah it’s funny the changes that everybody’s going through. Yeah. So all right exciting. Huh? So a couple of things you did post a link um The COVID-19 protecting your family by Dr. Dave Price. That was actually from Vienna. She set that out. That’s where I got that from. But it was uh

[00:08:12] Evan Francen: you should have taken credit for it man. I was giving it to you.

[00:08:14] Brad Nigh: I know but yeah, but it was good. You know my wife is in as an earth and she watched it and agrees it. That’s kind of funny wash her hands and don’t touch your face and realistically you’re going to be in pretty good shape socially, distance or physically dissidents I guess is the new

[00:08:34] Evan Francen: terminology you’re touching your face is I mean I can’t like cross my beard.

[00:08:39] Brad Nigh: Oh it’s driving me insane.

[00:08:41] Evan Francen: So if I wash my hands cannot touch my food then

[00:08:44] Brad Nigh: yes.

[00:08:45] Oscar Minks: Well your beard could already be carrying germs. So if you’re going to sanitize your hands. You should sanitize your beard to

[00:08:50] Brad Nigh: you gotta wash. Yeah I got a shampoo the beard.

[00:08:54] Evan Francen: I was just noticing we got some sweet beards here.

[00:08:57] Oscar Minks: Good looking beards. Yeah, yeah. I wondered if the pandemic is going to have an impact on the number of people that have beards because what brad is saying here, if your beard carriage terms, we’re going to see more people start training these beards. Now,

[00:09:10] Brad Nigh: a lot of it had beards or healthcare have shaped Because the N 95 masks don’t fit correctly over a beard.

[00:09:21] Evan Francen: I will die before I lose the spear.

[00:09:23] Oscar Minks: So I will die with my beard.

[00:09:26] Brad Nigh: I figure, you know, don’t touch the beard if we go out, I don’t, you know, I have a Clorox wipes in the car. So you know, I’ll go shopping, do the cart wipes and then don’t touch anything. Get unload the groceries, get the clock slides out, weight down everything I touched and then I’m okay.

[00:09:50] Oscar Minks: Yeah, I’ve been keeping a big bottle of uh, isopropyl. Just so much fun. The spray bottle, you know, so I have to buy anything or go in somewhere, spray it, spray my hands and so on.

[00:10:03] Brad Nigh: There you

[00:10:03] Evan Francen: go. I found out when Walgreens in my town, when the truck comes the uh, talk to manager telling me, hey, when does the truck come on Saturdays because I want to be here when it gets here. So now I get my toilet paper hand sanitizer and wipes right after truck.

[00:10:22] Brad Nigh: I’m not too far from you, maybe I’ll have to come out there. I think we’re running low and wipes.

[00:10:27] Evan Francen: Yeah, for 45 cents. I’ll tell you when it is.

[00:10:30] Brad Nigh: Yeah. All right. Yeah. Yeah. It’s been it’s been interesting. So I think, you know, well, we’ve talked a bit about COVID-19 and what its effect is on um, are personalized. But from a professional, you know, experience, what are some of the effects that we’re seeing? Um, you know, incident response, physical security being probably the biggest too. Um, yeah. Oscar you’re, you know, you’re more in the weeds with our high our team at this point than I am, which thank you. Uh, what do you guys see you over there on from, from customers? Has this come, you know, are we seeing anything directly related to it or phishing attacks? What’s going on?

[00:11:21] Oscar Minks: Yeah. So definitely seeing the frequency of incidents increase already. Um, and I think that’s a combination of multiple things right now. All right. When we look at first of all the shift to home, um, there’s so many businesses before that, you know, we’re relying on in office work and now they’re making this dramatic shift and in doing so they’re inadvertently opening themselves up through for more attacks. Right? So maybe there their network wasn’t properly designed to be able to um, you know, except remote workers. So they’re making quick changes and implementing VPNS and policies and things to try to make remote working a possibility. But because of that, you know, we’re inadvertently seeing things being open, I didn’t know should be exposed and so on. Then. I think the biggest thing right now is just the, um, you know, increase in And fearmongering and tactics surrounding COVID-19 when they’re targeting people for social engineering. Um, we’ve seen like statistics already since COVID started, I think Google put out an article last week saying that we’ve seen a 300% rise in malicious domains. Um, and specifically most of those domains had words associated with the pandemic track Covid or corona, something like that. And so these malicious domains are being stood up to target people and a lot of it, you know, is fear. But it’s also just playing on the human mind and the fact that hey, everybody wants to know what their, you know, work at home policy is going to be within their company or everyone wants to know like what the stimulus package is going to be and how it’s going to affect them. Everyone’s concerned about masks, right? And we’re seeing some of these fish target those things. Right? So they’re saying, hey, you want some masks, here’s a link at this mask or here’s your new policy regarding your work at home or here is your new benefits, update things like that. And so they’re just using that as another means to continue to, you know, distribute the the same color and junk that we’ve been seeing before. But I can’t say in the incidents that we’ve been working since this is going on. Once we’re able to eradicate the foothold inside the network, We’re seeing those Attackers just shift and target the end users at a higher or currents rate than we’ve seen before because I think the sake of human is just a little bit more susceptible right now because we all have some fear with what’s going on. We’re seeing that fear being exploited constantly.

[00:13:43] Brad Nigh: Yeah, that sucks. Uh, you know, with the, you know, the stimulus checks and all that. Yeah, that’s going to be a huge one for young personally. I think, well, I let my mom know, right? Hey, don’t they’re not going to send you anything asking for information, right? It’s just going to come, don’t don’t enter information. And uh, okay,

[00:14:14] Oscar Minks: I’ve seen one that was targeting people saying there’s a mandatory test. You have to click this link to sign up for your mandatory covid test. You think about like age, demographics and people that may not understand things like we understand that can see that. And you know, I think I have to click this. I have to do this. This is mandatory. I’m afraid if I don’t get something bad will happen to me. We’re seeing a lot of those motives or narratives frighten the pretext shift to those things that just initiate fear, uh, with that people were already afraid today

[00:14:45] Evan Francen: because the older generation, the other generations are the ones that are the most at risk. Right? So they would be the ones that are also prime targets because they’re typically not as savvy. Right?

[00:14:58] Brad Nigh: Yeah. Yeah. That’s gen Xers gonna carry the water for everyone here were well qualified for that. Right?

[00:15:09] Evan Francen: I don’t know what’s gen

[00:15:10] Brad Nigh: x didn’t like

[00:15:12] Oscar Minks: 80 or 1987 bread or

[00:15:14] Brad Nigh: Before 1965 to 1980. Something like

[00:15:19] Evan Francen: that. So much gen Xer I learned something today. This is awesome.

[00:15:24] Oscar Minks: I missed it by by Dean martin. But

[00:15:29] Evan Francen: You two are you too young?

[00:15:31] Oscar Minks: Yeah, a little too young

[00:15:32] Evan Francen: young kids these days.

[00:15:34] Brad Nigh: Right. So we’ve seen clouds.

[00:15:37] Evan Francen: Right? So I’ve I’ve seen myself in my own inbox. I’ve seen, you know, some phishing attacks that are unique. Um Yes, I think we’ve seen an increase in phishing attacks. It seems like uh you already you know, kind of mention it targeting people with the checks that are coming trying to get people to give out bank account information or user names, passwords that way. Also seen attacks against authentication. It seems like because more we’ve pushed more and more people quickly to work from home and maybe some of those people didn’t get set up with multifactor authentication or maybe it got in the way, so they just kind of disabled it maybe um have you seen increased attacks on zoom and web conferencing

[00:16:23] Oscar Minks: we have seen some dr Oz on

[00:16:26] Brad Nigh: zoom. Um

[00:16:27] Oscar Minks: yeah people are just cruising zooms trying to find live meetings and I think the idea of their right is to hopefully find a meeting that’s still running that may have contained information that was private that the host was unaware of. But yeah, we’ve seen last week we’ve seen a bunch of dropouts on that.

[00:16:44] Brad Nigh: Yeah, there’s a big article with all the schools that are in colleges that are now using it. People are jumping in and posting, you know, hateful racist, you know, profanity to try and just disrupt. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:03] Evan Francen: And now this week for my kids and I don’t know brad if your kids are going back to school.

[00:17:08] Brad Nigh: No, not till next week.

[00:17:10] Evan Francen: Okay. Because my daughter is she’s using to, you know, so I just kind of wonder, you know how that’s all gonna sort of shake out with security.

[00:17:21] Brad Nigh: The uh my kids have done, they have optional things. They’ve done a couple of google meetups, that’s what they’re using it uh for that for just some different classes. But yeah, it’s yeah, I think, I don’t remember who told me that he didn’t Peter that mentioned it. He’s like yeah, we’re gonna look back on this in 20 years and you asked us what it was like and it’s like, well gosh, it was just life changing and all these things, right? We couldn’t go out, we can do anything, you ask our kids and they’re gonna be, you know, well we all stayed at home, we played games, we got, you know, dinner together, like there’s a positive to it. But it’s uh, yeah, it’s very, it’s very, yeah, I don’t know.

[00:18:12] Evan Francen: Yeah, I agree. Man, another attack I’ve seen too. So we’ve seen increased phishing attacks, increased attacks against these, these checks that are coming, increase the tax again, zoom, increased attacks against authentication, increased attacks against nothing. I’ve seen here these, uh, what do you call them? Snake oil type things like iris cures. You know, so you, you know, some new things and uh, you know, click here to buy it and you buy it and you’re never going to get the product. But I’ve seen those two. Yeah,

[00:18:46] Brad Nigh: yeah. Yeah. It’s scary. Um, yeah. So

[00:18:51] Evan Francen: kicking somebody when they’re down to, right?

[00:18:55] Brad Nigh: Yeah. I

[00:18:56] Oscar Minks: also think to, just the idea like from what we’re seeing with an increase in incidents right now, not all of those incidents originated from, you know, these covid top focused events we’re talking about. I think that a lot of our Attackers know now that like our infrastructure teams are no longer sitting on site. Right? And so there’s an increased likelihood that they’re going to have, you know, a break in their backup chain or they’re going to have something else going on. There’s something going to be as diligent about their checks as they normally would when they’re in the office. And so I think the opportunity to attack right now, it’s much higher um you know, thinking about that and then also thinking about how that the time to respond is going to be a little higher as well now. So you’ve got, so you’ve got physical backups, maybe there’s an air gapping through physical devices and if you do ransom them, then they’re going to have to send someone on site, maybe get permission to go into the office to go through all those hoops before they can even start the recovery. And so just, it’s like the perfect storm for an attacker right now because were restricted based on our access fear is high and there’s so many targets available and I think that we’re going to see that the rate of occurrence for incidents throughout this is certainly going to continue to increase. There’s just too many factors at play right now.

[00:20:13] Brad Nigh: Well, I think you and I talked about this or a little bit last week is, I think we might see it because people are gonna start looking a little bit more, right? It may take longer, but they’re going to see those in breaches that occurred 369 months ago, they’re gonna start finding those things as they make these changes and then we’re gonna have a second wave in another 369 months of all the breaches that are occurring because of this, right? So it’s kind of, I think it’s just going to blow up,

[00:20:43] Oscar Minks: it’s like a little bit of a yin and yang, they’re both sides that play because you’re going to have those people who are finding those things that occurred months ago. But you’re also going to see the flip side of that where maybe your security operation center is dispersed now or security staff is dispersed and they’re not as diligent or maybe they have restrictions on their home and being able to see some of the logs are some of the events they were looking at regularly before. We also have to take a like factor here too that we’re already starting to see network pressure and utilization increase on home networks. Um, that’s going to continue to go up a lot of our services that we use like zoom zoom was having problems before and so you know, those, those other X factors at play there, if you’ve got three kids at home and they’re all in school, you’re working from home, your wife’s working from home and your entire neighborhoods doing that. And we start to see this pressure on infrastructure and then even your ability to respond, monitor and do your job fully remotely gets more challenging. And so it’s just another vulnerability that Attackers will be able to exploit.

[00:21:43] Brad Nigh: Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I think one of the things that we’re trying to do is, you know, how can we help. Right? And so we’re doing the, our incident response risk registration. Um, I don’t know if this has been, Maybe I’m breaking news here. I don’t know. We’re going to be waiving the fee for that there a little bit. I’m not sure exactly where but you want to talk about that. Oscar what exactly is our risk registrations? What what does that get someone?

[00:22:15] Oscar Minks: Yeah, sure. Um so essentially that’s our on boarding process. We’re going to go through this risk registration if you have an incident, but unfortunately going to be at the time of your incident. So what this does is give us an opportunity before an incident occurs, uh, to be able to get some information from you, catalog that information set up a phone call so we can all get on the phone and talk through the information we’ve received, Make sure we understand things like, you know, what are you using for a firewall, what’s your email security. And last year a couple checks about how you’re securing your public access today, we’ll get your key contacts will know who your backup guy is, your network engineer is your developed, bizarre and so on. Um and so the idea is we can go through this exercise today. We can get all the legal stuff out of the way and have contracts signed and all that. And so essentially, if you have an incident, we’re not gonna have to go through that and waste three or four hours later you’ll call us and we’ll be ready to engage because we’ve already got that already know who you are. Already a partner and we can go to quick action for you. Um So yeah, it’s just a way to kind of speed up that response time. Uh If you do have an incident and to make sure that we can be there to help you as quickly as possible.

[00:23:24] Brad Nigh: A couple of, you know, side benefits is at that point you technically have an incident response firm on retainer. So, you know, you could see some, you know, savings from the insurance standpoint. You’ve got this existing relationship. So there’s some other maybe hopeful benefits for you as well. Other than just beating up the process.

[00:23:48] Oscar Minks: Yeah, for sure. We always do a little bit of coaching in those two. So if we see things that are obvious gaps, right? It’s like we’ll give you some free advice during that exercise to say you’re not going back to multi factor, you should think about that or you know,

[00:24:04] Brad Nigh: is that a blow dryer airplane? I our plan you should get.

[00:24:09] Oscar Minks: Yeah.

[00:24:14] Brad Nigh: All right. Uh so yeah, I mean, we’re just going to see this increase. So it’s one of the things like security studio is doing the S2 team. We’re doing our risk registration. We’re waiving the fees for that for now. Uh You know where I’ll kind of skip ahead, you know, doing that Daily insanity check in. Um Just a Yeah. Hey, let’s get together and just talk. alright. Give people a safe place to talk about. Anything you want to talk about kind of where that came from and

[00:24:52] Evan Francen: yeah, yeah, absolutely man. It’s uh I think it was towards the end of last week. Uh you know, I think it’s, it’s part of my own sanity to write, you know, I’m used to seeing people checking in, you know, having discussions and um and I’m just assuming that I’m not the only one, you know, kind of struggles with that, you know, I like to be transparent. I like to share kind of the things I’m going through so that if other people are going through the same things that they feel more comfortable getting that off their chest and talking about it. So I want to start this daily insanity check in just to, you know, once every morning at 9:00 PM whoever wants to can, you know, join in. Uh we just check in right, we just spent a half hour, sometimes we might go a little bit over, but no longer than 60 minutes for sure. And people can jump in, You know, and if you got to leave, you know, five minutes and then leave five minutes in. But at least you get a chance to to see other people, most people turn on their video and we just talked about whatever, right. We have no agenda. Um Yeah, it’s been only for me.

[00:26:09] Brad Nigh: Yeah, that’s the discussion has been all over the place. And it’s nice. I think the for me, you know, I actually didn’t even realize you were doing it over the weekend until, um,

[00:26:21] Evan Francen: I didn’t either. I didn’t join.

[00:26:24] Brad Nigh: Yeah. Well that’s part of my thing is I turned off, you know, based, I sort of like when Oscar was saying kind of unplugged over the weekend and then I turned out, I was like, oh, what

[00:26:41] Evan Francen: I do the same thing man. So I don’t know if anybody joined over the weekend and I was just that discussion without us. I don’t know,

[00:26:47] Brad Nigh: But it’s, you know, it’s nice. It’s that almost like that office like small talk, right? Like just banter and those little things that I think I’m realizing, you know, even as an introvert and you know, enjoy doing something. But yeah, there is a, you get an energy from that close group. Mm and not there. Right? So it’s almost kind of a nice place for that, you know, type of discussion.

[00:27:21] Evan Francen: Absolutely man. And we got, um, you know, we have rules for the daily insanity check in, right? It’s basically play nice. You know what I mean? We’re not there to share a bunch of political opinions and you know, crap like that. It’s were there to support each other and I’ve learned, I’ve already just last week. So we just did the last week last week, right? That was the first week and I’ve already met new people that I’ve never met before, got to know them a little bit. I never would have done it and I never would have gotten to know them if I hadn’t, if we hadn’t done this thing I learned about ducks. I mean you were there on friday, right? I mean we got Suzanne, she, she’s a farm girl and she loved to share about ducks man when she was getting chicken. She’s like, you gotta get ducks,

[00:28:05] Brad Nigh: was it dutch harlequins or something?

[00:28:09] Evan Francen: Yeah, but you could just did you just see her perk up though and she had her chance to talk about that. So yeah, it makes me feel good man.

[00:28:17] Brad Nigh: I’m bummed, I’m not gonna be able to make it today. I have another meeting at nine because I have a great story about why our windows in the house were open for about eight hours yesterday when it was 40° and drizzly I pulled out some pork roast that apparently has gone bad before I froze, it didn’t realize it and process it. Opened it up and out it. I was like, I almost threw up. It was so bad. It was only open for about four or 5 minutes and just the entire house. I was like, oh

[00:28:54] Evan Francen: God, you have to shoot you have to share with the group on Tuesday

[00:28:57] Brad Nigh: man, it was so bad.

[00:29:00] Evan Francen: But you know, I do and I do want to, you know the daily and sanity checking is for anybody, Right? That’s not just for our secure people or security studio people, it’s for anybody. And if you want to know more about it, you know, go to go to my blog. Uh, you know, Evan francine dot com, look under, you know, show notes for episode 73. Uh, and you’ll see it, you know, the two places you can find to get, you know, get in on this.

[00:29:24] Brad Nigh: Yeah. So I’m gonna jump back on the notes just because I want, I do want to talk about the physical security piece. Um, you know, you mentioned you’re, and then you’re going into the office every day checking the windows, making sure everything is going on. You know, how many that would be an interesting question. Maybe we should posted on twitter’s, how many people have somebody that is going in and checking it. And that is a, you know, named responsibility like defined how I’m gonna guess not meaning

[00:30:00] Evan Francen: well, that’s another thing. You know, when we talk about, you know, we talked about all these different incidents, we’ve seen increases in all these incidents. We’re also seeing an increase in physical security incidents, right, Attackers, criminals. Local criminals know that people aren’t in the office. Right? You look at the, you know, on a monday or Tuesday, you look at the parking lot and there’s no cars there. Right? So if I break it, if I’m gonna break into an office on a sunday, it may not be noticed for weeks. You know, if I don’t have proper security, you know, security things, alarm system, camera surveillance, uh you know, somebody physically going to the office maybe once a week.

[00:30:41] Brad Nigh: And it’s little things too, like we all closed, you know, everybody that had a window or the meeting rooms close the blinds, right. Just even if it’s just an out of sight out of mind, you know, why why open up that temptation if you see monitors or computers, just close them? It’s not readily visible, Right?

[00:31:08] Evan Francen: Yeah. And in a small town, you know, I mentioned yesterday that, you know, my wife and I went for a walk in our small town um and, you know, security people are weird, right? I mean, we just think different. So I’m looking I’m checking, I’m not checking doors physically, but I’m really looking at, you know, all these small businesses, right, They’re small retail shops, they’re small restaurants and things like that in our small town. Uh But, you know, maybe it’s good for anybody who’s listening one to do the same kind of thing, get out and walk around and just be cognizant of, you know, maybe some physical security things if, you know, it’s a window that’s open or window that’s broken, or a door that’s propped open or, you know, lock that’s been jimmied, whatever, I’m sure they would appreciate it too. Right. Mhm.

[00:31:56] Brad Nigh: Mhm. Yeah, Yeah, it’s um Yes, it’s just, it’s crazy the difference in and thought process that is having to happen. I think, you know, the last two weeks have been, that transition of, you know, two weeks ago is, how do we get everyone to work remotely last week? Was everyone who’s now we’re working remotely, trying to figure out, like how do I work remotely? And you know, I think it’s probably gonna go another week or two that, you know, getting people settled in into that routine and I mean that’s a 34 week window for, are you checking these things what’s going to happen? Because there’s just so much, yeah, I don’t want to say chaos, but unsettled um, disruption. Right? And yeah, you’re right. Yeah, we know Attackers feed on that. Right. When is the best time to, to launch an attack when people are distracted when they’re not paying attention to these fundamentals because we’ve got to make the business work, we gotta figure out how to do this. So yeah, I think there’s a lot of uh, yeah, there’s gonna be a lot of uh concern here the next couple of months as these changes happen and we identify these attacks. I mean, I saw one, uh, there was a, I am, yeah, article that said chub got ransomware by maize. Yeah, I mean, and they’re one of the biggest cybersecurity insurance companies,

[00:33:44] Evan Francen: right? Yeah, we have contacts over there and I, we sent an email asking, you know, hey, what’s up. You know you guys are right. You know anything, you know, we can do because we don’t, we don’t charge people for stuff every time we do anything right? It’s funny we got the response back and this is something we know, right? We got a response back basically a copy and paste from the press release. They’ve all been instructed

[00:34:06] Brad Nigh: don’t share anything. I would say. That’s I mean, that’s fantastic though, right? That you want if you’re going through this is you identified it, you’ve communicated, Hey, here’s what you can tell people or somebody asked, here’s what to say, right? But I will say I’ll give them credit for doing that. That’s I don’t see that often.

[00:34:28] Evan Francen: You got to control the message. I mean, that’s one of the things you see over and over again. You know, incident response where you know, you’re doing all the tactical stuff trying to get your hands around it, trying to get containment, trying, you know, and then eventually eradication and all that other stuff, but don’t ever lose track of controlling that message, right? You get an opportunity to craft the message the way you want to craft it right? And that can often times be make or break on on whether you’re going to get sued what the public is gonna do what your customers are going to do. Um Yeah, so they did, yeah, I agree. Did a great job. I loved when I saw that response back, I was like, alright sweet. That’s how you do it. We’ll talk about this more as friends, you know, maybe it wants this thing subsides.

[00:35:13] Brad Nigh: So uh we have a a second guest here.

[00:35:18] Evan Francen: Hey Jack.

[00:35:19] Brad Nigh: Hey zack he is my son just came in. He loves, he loves you Oscar every time we’re on a call and he hears you on the speaker phone, he has to come in and say I always makes my

[00:35:30] Evan Francen: day right? That’s cool. It’s good to see him

[00:35:36] Brad Nigh: cracks me up. Okay.

[00:35:39] Oscar Minks: Hey, so one thing uh we were talking about her free stuff that maybe going to mention too is Evans ransom. My readiness tool that we have for free as well. I think that’s something folks should be looking at for sure right now. Um I did you know, talking about incidents to and we’ve seen an interesting an interesting one here recently um where it was appeared it was going to be a ransomware event, right? Uh frameworks in place like they were trying to stage to encrypt but instead of encrypting the data, they just deleted all the data and left the ransom note for the deleted data. And so we’re starting to see those ransomware attacks devolved right now because you think about it um the likelihood of identification and deleting a disk is lower than encrypting it is because you’re going to see those resources start churning, right? And it’s going to be instant, it’s not going to take hours to do. And so that’s just something I think I would like all of our listeners to be aware of is that, you know, some of the identified as we thought about before for ransomware events like CPU utilization, right? This is filling up and so on. Like may not be applicable as ransomware, Attackers continue to evolve those and so do the rights of my readiness, make sure you got good backups and make sure that their air gapped.

[00:36:53] Brad Nigh: Yeah, yeah. You know, that’s a good point. So on our secure dot com we have a COVID-19 page that has a bunch of the different um you know, resources links to all the pipes are webcasts and things that we’ve been doing. I’m going to make uh I’m gonna send Brandon our marketing a message right now to make sure you put that out there. I mean that’s a really good point.

[00:37:17] Oscar Minks: Yeah. And which by the way, I gotta give Brandon some Kudos, read that blog last week and did a fantastic job. So everyone should definitely take 10 minutes and read that post.

[00:37:29] Brad Nigh: Mhm

[00:37:30] Evan Francen: Yeah, he’s a great writer.

[00:37:31] Oscar Minks: Yeah, he really is

[00:37:32] Brad Nigh: due. I’ll tell you it’s fantastic for me because I’ll give him well sit down or you know, now it’s Remote but sit for like 15, 20 minutes and just park and then he puts it into, you know, easy to read and it sends it back like, hey, what do you think? And it’s usually like, you know, 15 minutes of talking through it and then, you know, 15, just some little tweaks. Whereas if I had to sit down and write it would take me hours just because it’s not my thing.

[00:38:07] Oscar Minks: Yeah, I was incredibly impressed with this article because you and I were kicking some ideas with him an email, right? And I’ve seen are bulleted list of ideas. Like that’s a great list of ideas. And then I read this article and it’s like, holy crap man, you did a fantastic job and taking all those points and just making them understandable and relatable to people where I would have struggled with that. Maybe you would have struggled with that too.

[00:38:27] Brad Nigh: Yeah. Yeah. Which one? Where is that one that under uh under the blog?

[00:38:34] Oscar Minks: I think. So I just have the directly from Brandon, but I’m sure we get that and share it with the podcast

[00:38:39] Brad Nigh: Data security amidst the COVID-19 pandemic. Um you have to go back and look at that. Uh So hang on now, it’s I totally lost my train of thought there. All right. Uh So I went on to our page and that reminded me tomorrow, john harmon and I are doing a a webinar with dr So unexpected cyber risks stemming from COVID-19. So it’ll be uh it’ll be interesting.

[00:39:17] Evan Francen: Yeah, that’ll be great, man. I’m gonna, I might get into that if I’m not, I’m still here,

[00:39:24] Brad Nigh: that’s at one PM central. Uh you can go to F are secure dot com and then if you click there’s a banner at the top for Covid 19 security resources, uh it’s one of the first ones. It’s the webcast. So you can go there. I think from what we’re planning, it’s going to be, you know, real short slides from us. Just kind of the, hey, here’s all the things that we are getting asked, you know, those high level ones and, you know, don’t do split tunneling, those sort of things. But I think it’s, the majority of this is we’ll see what happens. It’s gonna be Q and A. And they’re from what I’ve heard, it’s gonna pretty high um attendance.

[00:40:12] Oscar Minks: So it should be a lot of fun then.

[00:40:13] Brad Nigh: Yeah, put it on the spot. Let’s see what happens. And that’s going to start asking what he’s going to join under some good in him and just start asking like really hard questions. Wait a second, Evan

[00:40:27] Oscar Minks: don’t troll. Come on. You

[00:40:29] Evan Francen: sound like that

[00:40:29] Brad Nigh: guy. Just certain words, he’s gonna be like, I’m like, hang on, right. Yeah, but that will be good. That’s with locked in, has their uh executive vice President. Global cyber technical technology practices and the Senior VP financial lines claims practice leader and global cyber wordings and claims leader.

[00:40:58] Evan Francen: Just just call him Bill beck man, we know him. He came down uh can you win our hacks and hops remember that.

[00:41:09] Brad Nigh: That’s when you Oscar, you guys kind of went back and forth a little bit there.

[00:41:13] Oscar Minks: Yeah, I remember Bill

[00:41:15] Evan Francen: Oscar is going to join now too and he’s going to

[00:41:19] Brad Nigh: uh,

[00:41:20] Oscar Minks: let me find this link real

[00:41:23] Brad Nigh: quick. So would you say by pain, you’re supporting the uh,

[00:41:30] Evan Francen: I’ve met, I’ve met Anthony uh, Dagostino. Okay. He’s good man. It was, it was fun to me. We had him down in um, crap. Where are they at Kansas city.

[00:41:44] Brad Nigh: Okay. I’m excited to do it. I think it’s gonna be really good. Um, you know, I had to speaking events that I was supposed to do that. Nds you cybersecurity summit and secure 3 60 both got canceled. Yeah, I didn’t get a thing from secure 360. They are doing some online stuff. Uh so virtual conferences. So I may do do my presentation.

[00:42:11] Evan Francen: Yeah, I quit doing online.

[00:42:14] Brad Nigh: You what

[00:42:15] Evan Francen: I quit doing online.

[00:42:17] Brad Nigh: You quit doing online?

[00:42:18] Evan Francen: Yeah, everybody’s doing it, man. There’s nothing unique about it.

[00:42:22] Brad Nigh: Uh All right. So yeah, I said we were, we’ve got, you know, a bunch of stuff out there on the website. The daily insanity check ins are great. You know, absolutely should join them if you can. It’s uh, it is, it’s not, I mean, were there to answer questions if people have them, but it’s just, it’s just talking and let’s keep our sanity a little bit. Here.

[00:42:51] Evan Francen: you come and go man. I you know, nobody takes any offense if you’re not there 34 days you pop in one day and whatever. Right?

[00:43:00] Brad Nigh: I would say I’m a little bummed I’m missing because it is fun to two just chat with everyone.

[00:43:07] Evan Francen: Yeah. Will you be there tomorrow?

[00:43:09] Brad Nigh: Right here tomorrow? Cool. So all right so real quick. Um we did make an announcement last week about R. C. S. Sp mentor program. Uh you know we are still going to do it so that’s awesome. It’s going to be interesting to see how that goes. Um But yeah the changes. We’re not doing the impersonal portion. So uh we’ll see how Evan and I are able to stay awake for two hours without you know an actual class in front of us.

[00:43:46] Evan Francen: Yeah. Crystal there man wait no no no I’m sorry.

[00:43:50] Brad Nigh: Right. Yeah uh lots of caffeine.

[00:43:55] Evan Francen: But that’s what I

[00:43:56] Brad Nigh: Meas. Um as of Monday the 23rd we had over 1000 registered students. Which is I mean that’s it’s crazy.

[00:44:11] Evan Francen: I remember I remember the first class man we did in 2010 we had six students and everybody thought I was crazy right? Because you know we didn’t have we didn’t have really any revenue. Everybody thought you know you’re doing this for free. You’re not going to charge people and it’s like no man. I mean if our commitment is to fix the broken industry and people tell us that we have a talent shortage issue and that people can’t afford training, well then we’re gonna do this thing, right? And to see you kind of grow to what it’s become today with over 1000 students. Um, you know, and it’s, and I’m not tooting my own horn or tooting our horn. It’s the, but I got to tell you that the good feeling you get in your heart, the blessings you get from giving and the people you get to meet. I mean, it’s just been an incredible experience. Hopefully we have the technical infrastructure. I don’t know if we’re doing, is it we’re doing it through uh, go to meeting, right?

[00:45:11] Brad Nigh: Yeah. It’s like it’s going to be onto Youtube somehow. I don’t know,

[00:45:16] Evan Francen: can we support 1100 Students? I don’t know. We’re gonna find out.

[00:45:22] Brad Nigh: I mean technically weren’t, I mean we’re not using um yeah, I was thinking so the first one I did with you was in 17. So April 17. We had What? Under 100 people. Yeah. And then 18 was about 150 And then last year was 350. Yeah. And now we’re over 1000. It is, it’s, it’s so great. I can’t tell you how many messages and emails have you gotten from somebody who’s passed and like it totally makes it worthwhile to, to go through that.

[00:46:05] Evan Francen: Yeah. When people got the announcement, um, you know, last week I got a couple of emails, one was from somebody who said, you know, I’m so grateful that you’re still doing this because I wouldn’t have been able to afford it.

[00:46:17] Brad Nigh: Mhm. Yes.

[00:46:20] Evan Francen: Yeah, man. It warms your heart. You know,

[00:46:22] Brad Nigh: Usually what? 3 to $5,000 to do this.

[00:46:27] Evan Francen: So what then? Maybe?

[00:46:29] Brad Nigh: Mhm. It’s a lot. Yeah.

[00:46:32] Oscar Minks: The fact that you guys have had it running for 10 years now as a testament to how much people care about it and you know, just how positive of an impact the service can have on our community. So kudos for 10 years. That’s awesome.

[00:46:45] Evan Francen: Thanks man. And it’s also been cool. Like I think it took this long to grow this big because I think for the first nine years, maybe the first eight years people thought, no way. What’s the cat? You know, people don’t get like so many people Eft up the word free, you know, because they, you know, to bait and switch kind of thing. It’s nice to see that people finally believe us, maybe it is really free. There’s no catch.

[00:47:13] Brad Nigh: They did the the uh the free as in beer, right? And that the uh another thing it is, hey, and what’s great is those connections we make too. And you know, we learn things and the questions that we get, I can’t tell you. There’s been a bunch and I’m like, yeah, I’m gonna have to look that up because that’s a great question.

[00:47:42] Evan Francen: Yeah, man. I mean I’m coming up on 20 nine I think years in this industry and I learned new stuff every day man. I mean as soon as I learned something new and feel like I got it You know 20 new things emerge or something you know it’s crazy.

[00:47:58] Brad Nigh: Yeah that’s why we all kind of got in why I got into I. T. And then moved to security is is I can’t do the same thing. You know that routine just I can’t do it right? I need that challenge. I need to keep learning. That’s what stimulates me. And so yeah if you stop staying on top of things and just kind of rest you’re gonna get passed by real fast, right?

[00:48:27] Evan Francen: Yeah I think even more so on your team Oscar with I mean technical services, new things, new words, new acronyms like every day and I’m like what the hell is this? You

[00:48:37] Oscar Minks: know we’re constantly uh I mean continually learning and the way I like to look at it is it’s one of those things where uh to be good like you said you have to always keep your ear to the ground and try to learn. But more importantly it’s uh do you enjoy being a lifelong people because if you’re going to be on the technical side of information security, you’re going to be a lifelong people and I think you’ll see a lot of us in this side really do. Just enjoy learning and we enjoy finding new things and breaking new things apart and identifying new exploits and really figure out how they work so that we can go use that apply that knowledge to help other people stop it. Um For me personally that’s one of my favorite parts about the job is getting to continually just be a lot of fun. People always learn new things.

[00:49:21] Evan Francen: That’s cool man.

[00:49:23] Brad Nigh: Yeah the good good ones in in I. T. And then you know security are aren’t those ones that just sit back. They’re always pushing themselves and you know it kind of weeds weeds them out like natural selections that were.

[00:49:41] Oscar Minks: Yeah for sure and there’s a fine line there too you can almost go like uh overboard like you know like it’s easy to get wrapped up in the matrix if you will. Um And really cause some internal stress on your brain. Like for me it’s you know it’s like constantly solving a puzzle. A lot of these times we’re working incidents you know um we’re trying to put this puzzle together to paint a picture and sometimes we don’t have all the pieces of the puzzle. And so we try to find the pieces around it to determine what that missing piece actually is, what it looks like. Some recreate that puzzle. And so that’s just kind of a rudimentary way of explaining how challenging it can be sometimes. And it’s uh incredibly easy sometimes to just, you know, dive into deep to where you’re behind your screen for 28 hours and then you realize that I haven’t had supper, didn’t have lunch, you’ve only got up to go to the bathroom a couple times and you’re not making any progress anymore. It kind of got to step away, like we were talking about before. I think it’s why it’s so important. Give yourself time to just unplug and um you know, pull yourself away from the stresses of, you know, whatever your study at that time and the news and everything. And for me it’s a lot of that, just getting outside Phil, in the fresh air, even technology behind for an evening and then a lot of times tomorrow I’ll come back in and I’ve solved what I’ve worked on the previous day for eight hours just because my brain had a chance to reboot.

[00:51:02] Brad Nigh: Yeah, well I think you left out the important part. You don’t always know what that puzzle looks like. You kind of know it’s going to be squarish rectangle maybe.

[00:51:13] Oscar Minks: Yeah, there’s no picture on the box for this puzzle to figure it out yourself,

[00:51:18] Evan Francen: but you bring up another really good point, you know, going back to instant, responsible quick and then we can move on. But um I see that a lot of people make mistakes because they assume things they assume that they already know what the puzzle looks like. And so then that allows them from going where the facts lead you. So it’s in response is so important to let the facts lead you to what the puzzle looks like, right?

[00:51:39] Oscar Minks: Yeah. I think we all, you know, if we’re honest, we come into things that will be oftentimes we’ll get called into an incident, go through triage and in that initial conversation, like I know what’s going on here. I’ve seen this before. Um, but we always have to be open. Like you said, that may not be the case and then, you know, not all the time, but I’d say, you know, a quarter of the time we’ll get into these incidents and it’s a completely new angle on something we thought we knew before. And so we have to scrap that previous knowledge and that tribal knowledge we had and start all over and start putting this puzzle together like brad said without a picture based on but going where the facts lead you and letting that be the ultimate driver.

[00:52:16] Brad Nigh: Yeah, yeah, good.

[00:52:19] Evan Francen: Uh I say good advice. Really good.

[00:52:22] Brad Nigh: Yeah. It’s funny how many times you’re like, oh, I’ve seen this, but not that what, wait a minute. But yeah, it’s easy to like you said, just especially now working remote, Like I mentioned it last week, I realized I wasn’t eating well and yeah, I was eating, getting the kids to lunch and having, you know, whatever they had a peanut butter jelly sandwich, It would be like 7:00 and that’s all I ate for the day. Oh yeah, no wonder I’m feeling a little bit worn down.

[00:53:02] Oscar Minks: I’ve been talking to a lot of our peers like, you know, who aren’t used to that working from home and that’s like the two pieces of advice I give, everyone I’ve been doing this for a really long time is give yourself a break, like every day, make sure that you get up away from your desk, you go for a walk, you just get away from the desk for, you know, a short period of time. And the other thing is that make sure you eat, it’s really easy to get wrapped up in your work, like set yourself a time to have lunch and eat that lunch every day, You know, those are so important, just keeping our mental health in check because it’s incredibly easy to get overwhelmed in your work and not have if you don’t set those boundaries for yourself, it’s really tough to keep that balance, that we really work hard to achieve,

[00:53:44] Brad Nigh: you know, it’s it’s funny, I’ve I’ve worked remotely and that hasn’t been an issue for me, but I think the difference now is the kids are home, so I’m constantly kind of like having to go handle kids stuff as a parent, so I’m like, all right, I got to get this done. I’m Yeah, so it’s almost like I’m overcompensating for that additional distraction. Mhm. Right? Uh It’s so easy to just to not realize it until you’re like, it’s four fuck. And I’m gonna, you know, fall asleep. And my dogs just came down

[00:54:23] Evan Francen: when I’ve always, there are three things like it’s like a three legged stool, like my overall well being, it’s physical, mental and spiritual, right? And if any one of those is kind of off, I mean, I can feel it and and that uh so keeping those three things kind of imbalance for me has been different. You know, the first week, you know, I’m a pretty spiritual guy and I know like the first week I found it hard to, to pray, you know, I found it hard to clear my mind and just think about things like that. But now, you know, things seem to settle now, the three legged stool doesn’t seem so lopsided, but

[00:55:06] Oscar Minks: yeah, yeah, I think that first week of kind of settling into thanks was overwhelming for everyone if you want to, like, even like it’s not in the forefront of your mind right consciously? Or subconsciously. I think it caused a lot of stress for even people who are rational thinkers, right? Just because we’re overwhelmed with news media everywhere, you turn the conversations appears, it’s just this continual thing and I know for me specifically, it’s not like I was worried about my health and my well being are my family, I feel confident, we’re gonna be okay and we’ll do the right things to get through this. Um, but it’s just more so that, um, just overwhelming volume of information that’s pouring in around this and your brain naturally is going to get out of sync there. And so we always have to kind of be rational calm, think through this. And I think now we’re probably all getting into a better pattern or some of that stress is being alleviated and we’re starting to feel a little more normalized in this new society is where existing, you know, for them, you know, next few weeks, three months. I don’t know whatever it is, but it’s going to be normalized.

[00:56:10] Brad Nigh: Yeah, I think realistically, I think as we kind of the start of the next school year before we really get back to some sense of what we want is called normal before

[00:56:24] Oscar Minks: I just hope that it doesn’t impact football season. I lost my college

[00:56:28] Evan Francen: basketball tournament. This is

[00:56:29] Oscar Minks: usually my favorite holiday of the year, which is March Madness that got canceled. I’m looking ahead of football, man, live sports. I know that,

[00:56:40] Brad Nigh: you know, what’s funny is it’s the distraction, right? It’s not that sports is gonna, you know, he’ll us or make things better. It’s, it’s a distraction from all the other stuff. What’s cool is that the, I don’t know if other teams are doing it. Maybe they are, but I know Washington capitals, you know, huge hockey jam and there, uh, doing digital simulations of their games on the game night and they’re probably, so, you know, it’s an hour instead of the two or three hours for the very long game, but it’s a break. It gives you a chance to kind of reset.

[00:57:20] Oscar Minks: Yeah, I’ve seen there was a guy and read it who when the college basketball tournament got canceled, he’s still doing this. He, I guess have been some other people got an Xbox in the last year. They made like the N. C double A basketball game. I don’t know what it was like two K eight or something like that. And they took one of these simulated brackets and he’s been playing out every game in the tournament, letting the simulator on it. They post them live and have live game comments and stuff like that kind of the same thing you were talking about. So just kind of fun saying like, um, I don’t know, people do good things right? We focus a lot on the bad. And I think there are some people out there like this guy. I just want to make sure nobody gets a little bit of basketball and they get, I feel a little bit of March Madness. And so they’re putting in this effort to just try to help people feel good. And I do think, you know, as much as we see the flip side of the negative, right? And the attacks, security incidents rising. I do think I’m seeing a little bit different difference in a lot of people were starting to care about each other a little bit more or just see each other as, as humans and kind of put down the political stuff, put down all that and let’s just try to get through this together and seeing that sense of community girl, which is a positive thing.

[00:58:29] Brad Nigh: Yeah. Yeah. If you don’t change after going through this, uh, yeah, I’ll be disappointed just in general. How do you not change your thinking change for for the better?

[00:58:44] Oscar Minks: Yeah, I think we have a huge opportunity. It’s just people in general to, to see something positive come out of this is going to be hard times. We should all grow.

[00:58:52] Brad Nigh: We have reset and make it make it right. All right. Well, great discussion. Um, backing up. We don’t know news, there’s so much going on. So we didn’t didn’t have any stories but mentioned uh, cola Ryan, how many times do we want to miss Frances named on purpose? I told him I was gonna do that wrapped up in cloudy. A terror

[00:59:20] Evan Francen: cloudier and

[00:59:21] Brad Nigh: cloudier quote here. Um, so shout out to Ryan, You wrapped up the second episode of the K-12 cybersecurity podcast. Uh, if you’re looking for another podcast to listen to go ahead and listen. He’s been co hosted. Uh gosh, a bunch of times. Um, when one of us is out. So, and then Evan promised a shout out to older

[00:59:48] Evan Francen: say see if you can see it right.

[00:59:51] Brad Nigh: Hougan born

[00:59:53] Evan Francen: works for me. I

[00:59:55] Brad Nigh: apologize

[00:59:56] Evan Francen: Siva. So yeah, older. Um okay is awesome. And so I just want to give a shout out. I promised I would uh she got her a copy of my book and put it on linkedin and she’s a regular listener. And so um I

[01:00:10] Brad Nigh: think it does for mutilating her last name.

[01:00:14] Evan Francen: I

[01:00:15] Brad Nigh: or if I got it right then yeah,

[01:00:17] Evan Francen: you know, I would have done the same thing man. But uh you know, I think we should start doing this regularly, you know, start giving people shout outs and you know, so shout out to Olga, I hope she’s listening, You’re awesome.

[01:00:29] Brad Nigh: You know, let’s mention this. We offered the kind of uh shoot us an email if you want to talk and kind of do them uh 10 or 15 minutes, you know, interview type of thing that you’re looking for work and I don’t think I’ve seen hardly anything come in.

[01:00:48] Evan Francen: No, we kind of stopped that and especially now a good thing. I don’t even know what the job market looks like right now, man.

[01:00:55] Brad Nigh: Yeah, but it was but yeah, I want more interaction. So yeah, let’s do it. Alright, well that’s it for this week, uh plenty going on. What’s to do? Everybody try to stay sane, thank you for listening. Just you know, three guys here today that really do care um hoping you, everybody stays healthy and sane. Love hearing from you. You’ve got something to say, email us insecurity at proton mail dot com. The daily insanity check in. Please join if you want. Uh, you’d rather do twitter. I’m @BradNigh and Evan is @EvanFrancen. Don’t forget to check out @StudioSecurity and @FRSecure for more content and uh, yeah, let us know how we can help Oscar. How about you? I mean, I know you, you stay off off the grid.

[01:01:51] Oscar Minks: Yeah, you can’t find me. But thanks for having me on today.

[01:01:58] Brad Nigh: Email unsecurity@protonmail.com.

[01:02:01] Oscar Minks: Yeah, I want to talk to you. Send an email. Cool.

[01:02:05] Brad Nigh: All right. That’s it. Talk to everyone again next week.